Chuck Anderson

You are still assuming there is a problem. I don't think many agree. The burden is on them to demonstrate how a fundamental aspect of our sport is being completely disregarded. Especially with clarifying language added to the rule book to resolve the previous ambiguity against the shooter. They declared Minor. They shoot minor. There is no moving up in power once a match starts, only down if you fail chrono. If a shooter declares minor they can shoot whatever power factor ammo they want assuming it's higher than 125pf. If they want to shoot Produciton with a Smith 629 and hot .44 mag at 300 PF, that's their choice. It's not a smart choice but they can do it. The fundamental aspect you refer to is Power if I'm reading you right. It's on the shooter to pick the division that suits their gear the best. If they want to shoot Major, shoot any of the other 5 divisions that have that as an option. Production is minor only, period. If that's your pick, you made your decision knowing you'd be shooting minor (or with complete lack of knowledge). You declared your power factor along with your decision to shoot Production. I understand you don't think it has been been explained to your satisfaction. It has to mine. I'm not sure who you think has this burden to demonstrate anything to you. You disagree, fine. I don't see any reason to change. Doesn't look like Flex does either. There are 7 other voting members of the BOD. Maybe you can convince them. I guess I look at rules a bit differently. I would rather retain rules stability. I look at a rule change from the point of view of what benefit it will bring. Not why shouldn't we make the change. In this case I see zero reason to make the change. You think it's unfair, I don't. I see many reasons to retain the rule, as have been pointed out. I agree with them, you don't.

I called today because it wouldn't let me reserve the room for the 8 days I needed. She said it originally looked like they were full on the 13th but it was a glitch. She said they have rooms available. I'll be there. The only hitch during the Multigun were the restaraunts didn't open till 7 which made it a bit of a push to get to the range in time. I'm hoping they worked something out with the hotel. Otherwise I'll be eating a lot of Burger King breakfasts.

My SJC Open Glock is flawless. They work very well well when built by someone who knows what they're doing as opposed to slapping parts on in the garage.

Looks like the DB with the match results spent last night in Richard Brownings 5th wheel on the way back to the Portland area. As soon as Bruce gets it he's going to upload it. I'd say I'm waiting patiently but after shooting that many misses it's more like hoping they fall out of the back of the truck on the way back so I don't have to see mine.

To be honest, if I placed 15th at Bianchi, I'd parade in a freaking thong. Not saying 15th isn't a great performance. It's way higher than I've ever hit. I just remember Billy having to wear it after Jessie beat him and the look on his face was priceless. I'm betting Mike was a better sport about it, but still probably not ecstatic.

Tim made his own argument on this. Absent a chronograph, the shooters declaration of power factor is definitive. In the case of Production that declaration defaults to Minor. Just because the shooter later ends up making Major, whether through the Chrono station or a change to Open it doesn't change. Take for example the shooter in Limited who thinks his ammo won't quite make it and being a stand up guy declares Minor. He gets to chrono and squeaks out a 165.01. Doesn't change him to Major, even though that's what he is shooting. There are certain rules there there in large part because of expediency. This is one of them. It's not a judgement call, it's doesn't require a flow chart in the book. If you screw up, you go to Open. If you're already in Open and screw up, you shoot for no score. Fairly short, easy to understand, even if you don't agree with it. It doesn't change into this long drawn out, well if you're shooting Production and you have grip tape in the wrong spot you can shoot L10. If you added an extra round you can shoot Limited. If you're holster is in the wrong spot you can shoot L10, or Limited or Open or... To be honest this whole thread is a lot about very little. At a major match, level two or up even, the odds of a competitor shooting Major PF ammo in Production are very low. Not saying it won't happen, but that competitor is already not competetive and is likely shooting for fun anyway. If it's a local level one match, who cares? He gets bumped to Open Minor and he learns a valuable lesson that won't likely be repeated. As far as the argument that Production has a different penalty than any other Division, I'll take that one first. It should. Production is the most rule specific Division we have. If you don't mess with the gun, it's not an issue. If you do, you better know the rules. Don't like that, shoot L10. There are a lot of perceived loopholes in Production. If you want to try and exploit them the penalty should be greater. Second, it's not the only Division this has the possibility of happening with. Take a Single Stack shooter declaring Minor to get 10 rounds. Say he's shooting a .38 Super (actually not an uncommon scenario) and he's running his old Open gun ammo at Major PF because that's what the gun likes. Goes a bit overweight and hits Open. Same situation, same result. He declared Minor, we're not bumping him to Major halfway through a match.

I just want to see the picture of Mike Voigt wearing the skirt for getting beat by Julie

I would have though that would make one of the end weights fall off, I'll have to try it. Thanks! It's gone through a couple different generations. The first ones are different than the current ones. The MGM ones are also different than Farley's design.

Dump boxes. I've seen good and I've seen remarkably bad. Including ones that melted and one that tried to come with me as I went down range. I haven't been to RM3G in a few years and really can't remember what they had so I'll take your word for it. As far as intimacy issues with RO's handling your guns...get over it. At least that's my answer wearing the MD hat. I don't own any guns I use for 3 Gun that are pretty enough I care about. If they get scratched dented or dinged I don't care because I probably did it myself already. I would much rather have another RO clearing my gear and getting the stage reset than have to water down stages so I can drag my lazy butt back however far to clear all the guns I littered across the landscape. The only concern comes about when the safety is not engaged. Easy fix though from the staff perspective. If you can't tell leave it alone. Let the shooter look. If it's on, and you can easily tell with most guns, clear it and get moving.

How can u say it's not broke when every match has a different rule set on the issue? Sounds about as broke as it gets to me. Choice is the essence of a free market. Right now the market's preference is pretty clear - matches under IMA rules without capacity limit fill within days (SMM3G 2012 took less than 2 days to fill), whereas USPSA matches with capacity limit often do not fill. I don't buy this argument at all. It completely ignores the fact that SMM3G and most other IMGA matches had the exact same 8+1 or 22" barrel limit for a very long time and filled the same way they do now. I seriously doubt that there was a group of people that didn't sign up because they could only load 8 in their shotgun tube.

What open is really about is optics and muzzle brakes and speed loaders/mag fed shotguns. We don't limit the rifle capacity in tac optics or limited so why with the shotgun. (at least you could argue that) I say it ain't broke don't fix it. Pat But we do have limits on handgun capacity. (Every match I'm aware of has 140mm or something similar for Tactical).

The funny thing is I knew who posted this, even without having to look up his name in the D-base. Same Area match I had a shooter I was running. I was 95% sure he had his finger on the trigger when clearing a malfunction. (for like 20 seconds, it was a loooooonnnnnngggg time). The way the stage was laid out, I couldn't see the right side of his gun because of a wall, and I couldn't get around to the left side because I'd be looking down the muzzle, not where I want to stand with someone doing what I thought he was doing. He stayed in the match with a brief mention once he was done shooting. If it's a safety violation I'm sure of, that person will receive a DQ. If I'm not sure it's a violation, no DQ. But yes, Customer Service is a great way to look at that. RO's should ensure safety first and that everyone is having a good time second.

FYI, Knoxx is now owned by Blackhawk Industries. Also the AA-12 seems to be a viable mag fed gun.

MGM Ironman for sure. Heard some fat dude won it the last couple years so it can't be that hard.

Buy 100 or so of each locally. Work up some loads and see what works best out of the gun. I've got a couple that love one bullet weight and hate the other. But I have yet to find a single bullet that's the best out of all my rifles.

The Midnight 3Gun is now open for all to register. There are a limited number of spots left. The website is supposed to stop taking new registrations as soon as we hit that mark (fingers crosssed). I sat down with Crimson Trace yesterdy. The stages are done and will be posted on the website shortly. Everything is coming along great. Fortunately CT has come great people there making my life really easy. (And no not that Harrison character. He's down in Oklahoma shooting a new TV show, Rapid Fire, with Seeklander and looking like he is having way too much fun). The website is here Get signed up while you can. There are only about 35 spots left open now and I imagine they'll go quick. Also I made a couple changes to the stages. If you need to you can shoot the match without a holster for you pistol. There will be staging/dump boxes for the handgun on each stage. It might not be the quickest way to shoot (I'm still going to bring a holster) but it should be pretty darn close. CT will also have their new Rail light system available for competitors who need additional lighting. Should fit just about anything with a Pic rail.

Special conditions: 14. Only handguns listed as approved on the IPSC website may be used in Production Division. Note that handguns deemed by IPSC to be single-action-only are expressly prohibited. 15. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked (see Rule 8.1.2.5), at the start signal. First shot attempted must be double action. Competitors in this Division who, after the issuance of the start signal and prior to attempting the first shot, cock the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed in respect of courses of fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these cases, the competitor may fire the first shot single action. This is one of the more and more frequent discrepancies between USPSA and IPSC. No thumbcocking in IPSC. Fine in USPSA after the buzzer.

Most Level II and III matches do not have a high enough representation of GMs to truly be an accurate reflection for classification. Take a level II. L10 with 35 shooters and the highest class shooter is one A. If he wins he shoots 100% does that make him an M? How about the B class guy who finished up at 90%. Does that make him an A or even an M?

There are half a dozen threads on this. .40 minimum for Major, unchanged. 9mm minimum for Minor, unchanged.

At LAMR, the shooter has begun the course of fire. If he drops the gun, DQ, if he breaks the 180 during the load, DQ. All the safety protections are in place once the RO says, Make Ready. If the shooter is (a) standing at the start position, ( pointing a gun at a target, ©with a loaded gun (d) finger on the trigger (e) during the course of fire how is this somehow unsafe when momentarily a tiny buzzer will go off and the shooter will be (a) standing at the start position, ( pointing a gun at a target, ©with a loaded gun (d) finger on the trigger (e) during the course of fire. To say that one is a DQable offense and the other is clearly not, makes no sense, and is in opposition to the clearly stated rules in the rule book. If I thought you were truthful that a club was doing that I would be concerned. And like other clubs that have made up their own safety, or other rules in my area I would explain the discrepancy to them and instruct them that they need to do things in accordance with the rule book or I will remove their USPSA sanction. It's very simple and something I've never had to do. Reasonable folks can read and understand the rules as they are written. As far as the trunk thing...well you're wrong. They may have been doing it for 20 years, but it's not a spotless track record. I'm aware of at least two, at the trunk AD's, one during an action shooting event, the other not. The second was at a range that shoots USPSA but it was not a match day. The individual in the second event died as a result of his injury. You can argue that point all you want. You're not going to convince me that handling firearms at your vehicle is as safe as handling them at a safe area. And that's all my troll feeding for May

Absolutely not true. No changes at all were made in Single Stack. No change was made to the minimum calibers for any of the Divisions either. The .40 cal comment only pertains to Major and remains unchanged, same with the 9mm for minor and unchanged. A new rule book will not be printed for this change in 2013. You can read the changes the BOD made in the online meeting minutes. There is a new rule book planned soon. I believe work will start this year or next. With an anticipated print date of 2014.

You cannot shoot SA (only) guns or start with the hammer in the SA positiion in Production. There are no SA guns on the Production list. If one was ever to slip in it would be a mistake. It is a DA start Division. If you were to declare Production and shoot a 1911, yes you would be bumped to Open but hopefully the first RO would catch it.

Then you end up with what we had before. People spraying the last rounds out of the gun and everyone hoping they stayed somewhere in the berms.

Yeah, after a minute of Make Ready, the shooter clearly isn't ready to shoot. If you read all my posts instead of picking and choosing the bits that support what you want to hear you'll figure something out. This was a contest to see who could screw with the RO the longest at Make Ready. The video, which was required for the contest, was made to show how long he could do it. If you think that is a normal procedure for that shooter, or that matter any other shooter...well you probably need to get out more. Flex is right, this is an internet problem. A group of guys got together on the internet and created a problem. It actually does exist, and I'm particularly aware of it because this happened in my Area and I heard about it from shooters. Will it take longer to ULSC hear him one time in a match than letting him take 2, 3, 4, 5 minutes on Make Ready? Sure. But this isn't a one time issue. Sooner or later the shooter, and his buddies get the point and stop screwing around. Have all the fun at the match you want. But when you start making the match not fun for other people, and down right a pain in the ass for others, it's time to knock it off or find another hobby. How long do you wait when a shooter is up at Make Ready? We used to have it listed the Nationals Match Book that you needed to do it in 30 seconds or you'd be dropped to the back of the order. Not sure if it's still in there or not. Haven't read it for awhile. A reasonable RO can certainly make his own judgement call on that. If we're talking about a shooter taking 4, 5, 20 times longer to Make Ready than any other shooter? I'm going to start wondering. At some point, as the RO, you need to clear the stage and deal with the other shooters in the match.

I'm a Production GM. I am not a Revolver GM. I'm technically a Revolver M, but it's like 50ish% and with the amount of time I put in with Revolver, 50% is about where I finish. I'm also an 80% Open M. That's also about right for how well I shoot an Open gun. Just don't spend the time with it. I'm certainly not a GM with an Open gun. I'm okay with the current method of one below though. Some of the skills translate Division to Division, stage breakdown, movement etc. But the challenges in each Division really are different. The accuracy requirements in Production and Revolver are different than in Open. The pure movement speed needed in Open is different than revolver. In Revo it's more important to reload while moving than to just flat out haul butt from position to position.