Chuck Anderson

Time plus, each stage factored at 100 points. Pretty sure they are all pretty close overall time wise.

That would probably work OK for me. I've got enough real estate I could equip for two Ironman stages. The pitfall would be smaller framed shooters who have room for a 30 round shotgun course, 40 round rifle course and a 40 round pistol course, but not room for all three at the same time. And of course tracking it from stage to stage.

For the ROs you should be getting an email from CT today with that info.

Bet you I can get your gun out of your CR Speed very, very easily, and no dislocated shoulder. As far as getting lasered, at USPSA, of course not. IMGA, can you show me how to deal with that particular issue? In the parking lot, or when the shooter isn't shooting. I might have missed it since I'm not an IMGA certified match official. And really, "crabby SOB?" I'm like a ray of sunshine on a spring morning. I can't imagine what you're referring to.

So we have cases where inadequate holsters resulted in dropped guns/DQs. Are there any cases where pistols removed in holsters resulted in dropped guns/DQs? From the number of DQs you have seen alone, it sounds like these holsters are unsafe for 3 GUN and that needs to be addressed in the rules. I think limiting shooters to one holster that meets some minimum retention requirement is a good idea. Pistol draws in 3 gun are not a big deal and making everyone use a safe/secure holster would have little impact on score. I would think the BOD would want to take action for a known problem (3 gun holsters) because there is significant liability involved. “Yes, we knew these holsters were inadequate and resulted in numerous dropped guns/DQs but we didn’t want to impose holster rules on open shooters.” Not sure that would work out well after an accident. I know “Open is open” and anything should be allowed but this falls into the unsafe category in my book. David E. I've seen more DQ's with these holsters at Pistol Matches than 3 Gun. It's not limited to a three gun issue. We used to have a holster test in the rules but did away with it because it really wasn't a good test. That said, I've also seen a lot of DQ's from what you would probably consider safe and secure holsters. I've seen three DQ's with guns falling out of the Blade Tech DOH alone. Unless you want to require an active safety lock you're not going to fix the issue. And even with that, I guarantee someone will mess it up. I've seen two guns come out of locked CR Speed holsters. The last was as the shooter was trying to explain to me how secure the holster was when locked. I showed him where to smack the gun, he hit it, gun hit the dirt. I think he believes me now. I haven't seen any DQ's resulting in dropped guns from holsters removed with the guns in them. It's either allowed in the rules, IMGA, or it's not USPSA. I have seen all manner of handling the gun when it's holstered off the body, including removing the gun, cleaning it, checking sights etc. I've probably seen just about every stupid thing you can do with a gun. I'm an LE Firearms Instructor. All kidding aside, most of this is referring to matches though. The last point on this is a practical one. There aren't secure holsters for most open guns. For the majority of the Tactical divisions I can always find a commercial holster that is very secure. Admittedly this is because I shoot a Glock. But there are more 1911/2011 security holsters on the market than there are for "X" brand open gun. And the more stuff you hang on a gun, the more difficult it is to find a holster to fit it. Optics, comps, *thumb rest [generic]*'s all have an effect on the types of holsters you can use with your gun. Can you show me a holster that would meet your safe and secure criteria for my 2011 with a *thumb rest [generic]* and Cameron's Side C-More mount? Or even better, you about for my SJC Glock with a C-More, *thumb rest [generic]*, and Crimson Trace Light Guard. Pretty sure in the next week or so there will be precisely one in the world, as soon as I get done making it.

Are these (CR Speed, Limcat, Chost, and Guga) really used in three gun? I have never seen anything like them at a 3 gun match. I don't know anything about them, maybe others can comment about their retention abilities and if they are used for 3 gun. My uneducated guess from watching videos of these type holsters is they do not provide sufficient retention for the rigorous movement of 3 gun. If I am correct then this is a non issue since they won’t be at a 3 gun match and we are not trying to force these rules on USPSA handgun matches. David E. Seen them numerous times at matches. Clint Upchurch DQ'd at the 2011 MG Nats when his gun fell out of one, I believe a CR Speed. Kay Miculek DQ'd one year with the same issue. I even remember an MGM Ironman where the whole CR Speed holster slid off the rod and hit the dirt with the gun in it. A friend uses a Limcat and I've seen all of the above. It's way, way more common in Open because there aren't many good choices to retain an open gun. I currently run with a cheesy Kydex thing I molded myself when I shoot my Open Glock and a Safariland 013 when I run a 2011. Both are on ELS plates making the holsters really easy to take on and off. Here's one that didn't make it in the rule book but is kind of related. Does anyone care about the ability to change holsters during a match? For the Ironman I normally run a regular Kydex holster but on stages where there is a lot of running or a slung gun I swapped to a Safariland ALS holster. Anybody care to be able to swap holsters mid match?

Here's an idea. If you want the prize distribution to be X. Run a match. Contact the sponsors, get your table, and run it however you see fit. You'll probably get shooters just about anything you do. If you're good at it, this BS about C and D class shooters funding the table for GM's goes away. The last couple Area matches I did had six figure prize tables. 95% (probably more) of that was donated. We made very few purchases because, like most prize tables, almost all of it was donated. The few things we did buy were very close to the match when we knew we hit the break even point. After that we put the overage back into the prize table to reward all the shooters.

That's my point. The dropped gun rule has absolutely nothing to do with saying a gun dropped at any time is safe. The reason it exists it to try and minimize an already unsafe situation. As far as safely removing a holstered gun. I haven't seen any perfect solutions. I have had holstered guns pointed at me dozens of times at IMGA matches. Never felt safe looking down the muzzle. I've also had holstered, loaded guns pointed at me while changing in the locker room. Never felt particularly safe with that one either. Call me a sissy if you want. For the folks that think the BOD didn't consider this we did. For those that think the BOD doesn't realize Pistol matches are different than Multigun matches, well look at who made this rule book. Chris Endersby did almost all the work on this one. Chris has been shooting MG longer than many of you have even been shooting at all. I've also shot a couple matches myself as well as being MD and RM for a handful. Linda has worked stats at one or two and even Phil has managed to show up for a three gun here and there. I understand that three gun matches are very different. But I also understand that a club level match just starting out will draw a much different crowd than the $300.00 entry fee match attracting experienced competitors from around the country. The rules need to work for both.

Round count is: Rifle: 92 Pistol: 64 Shotgun: 36 Optional SG or Pistol: 47 Stage Guns: 72 Each stage with shotgun will have 4-8 static clay birds. The birds are shotgun only. There are several stages that also give you the option of shooting plates or poppers with shotgun or handgun, your call. There are no slugs required or allowed. Also no reason at all for Buckshot. I'll try and get the match booklet online next week. It's pretty sweet. Crimson Trace's marketing group did up the book for us and it looks great. Trust me, it looks a lot better than the pencil sketches I sent to them.

There are still a couple spots open. We're getting pretty close though. Maybe 6 or so left open.

You're misunderstanding the dropped gun rule. That exists for the case of a gun that is unintentionally dislodged. If the rule was a DQ you'd see people trying to hide it. To pick it up and put it away before people saw. The rule exists to encourage the safe retrieval of that previously cleared firearm. Not to allow someone to handle their firearm without a RO present. I've seen a lot of people talk about how secure a gun is in a holster. Keep in mind that whil I use a Safariland ALS for most of my three gunning, which is the same holster I use on duty, there are a lot of people using CR Speed holsters, Limcat, Ghost, Guga, and the rest of the holsters that look more like the trigger guard lock that came with my gun than something to carry it around in. If someone has that Guga holster, which is designed to be removed from the belt with the gun in it. Do you want them walking around the range holding that pistol, pointing it at themselves, others, you? I would have loved to cut this rule, but it just doesn't make sense to do so, particularly since this is a ruleset from USPSA. Someone asked what the purpose behind USPSA doing this was. I can't speak for the whole BOD but my personal reasons were as follows. Multigun is going through a bit of a growth spurt. 15 years ago when I started there were really only a handful of options to shoot big matches. Now there is one almost every month, and sometimes more than one in a month. That's great but most of these are still big matches. Lots of prizes, lots of expense, lots of production value. At some point, likely soon, that is going to start to decline. At some point there will be market saturation with big matches and they won't be able to fully support themselves. What's missing from the three gun scene is local matches. 3GN tried to address this for 2012 but I don't know how well it's working for them since I really haven't heard much about that east coast series. What USPSA is trying to do is create a rule set, with the supporting organization to allow existing USPSA clubs, and even better new clubs, to put local three gun matches on the ground. In addition to allow them to do Local, state, sectional, area and national level matches. All with the same rules from your local club to that big match your going to in Vegas, or Georgia, or West Virginia. Wherever. Not a mandate. Not saying to the IMGA or Outlaw matches that they have to or even should follow our ruleset. If the market of up and coming three gunners pushes that change, great, job done. That means a few things for this ruleset that IMGA matches don't deal with. They have to be more comprehensive. It's simple for a single IMGA match to say these are all the rules they need when there is an experienced staff on hand that will handle the things not covered in the book the same way because they've been doing it for years. Heck, I'm running a match next month. I managed to get the rule book whittled down to 4 pages. But I've got Travis Gibson as my RM and a whole host of experienced 3 Gun RO's working. I wouldn't expect that level of knowledge from the MD running his first 3 Gun match. Or the shooter shooting his first match. There are also a few things in there that are based on pistol rules. From my perspective it doesn't make sense to have a USPSA pistol match and a USPSA Multigun match at the same spot, run by the same people and tell a shooter that something he did at one match that was perfectly fine got him DQ'd at the other match.

Absolutely allowed.

I've seen you shoot...I believe it.

Almost all, if not all of the IMGA matches (Outlaw) you refer to use the points system for stage points. If you go off of straight time there is a tendency to weight the match almost completely towards the long range rifle stage (s). For example. I shot a rifle only match last month. 6 stages. The first long range stage I spent longer shooting it than I did on the other 5 (including one more long range rifle stage) stages. The point value is a way to equalize the stages to a degree. Otherwise the close fast stages are really a waste of time to shoot.

You are next on the wait list. What about Katie, isn't she traveling with you? Doug I was going to give Miss Harris a rise from the airport but I don't think Joe has finalized her travel plans yet either. One spot to go, eh? Screw it I'm booking flights for Saturday thru Wednesday. Somebody will be a no show at game time. Plus I really want to shoot that night match. I have already reserved a Police Helicopter with one if those big spot lights to fly over me when I shoot at night. I'd hate to miss the look on Chuck's face when he sees me game the dark. if you really wanna game it Jesse, I'd bring Parachute illumination flares for each stage. I know chuck is... Yeah but chuck isn't shooting for score, is he? Sorry stud, I don't do all the work if I'm not playing for keeps. Heck yeah I'm shooting for score. But don't worry, I'm not a night person. I probably won't even be able to stay awake for all 8 stages.

Well you are the Mayor. If you want to pony up for a Helo go for it. But it has to stay at least 5000 ft AGL.

Night Vision devices will not be needed for the match. You can certainly bring them if you want though. There are three stages that have some form of shooting with Night Vision. That will be supplied on those stages. One a set of binocular goggles, a clip on Night Vision optic on a stage gun and a FLIR thermal optic on the 240B. Unless you're really proficient with running NV while shooting I'd say you're way, way better off with white light, and of course lasers. I've had all the info on the match for awhile. (I know a guy). My set up will be very similar to any other 3 Gun match. My Glock with Red dot optic and white light, shotgun with a CT Rail light on it and Leupold Delta Point. For the rifle I'm not 100% decided yet. I'll probably run two. My regular JP competition rifle with Leupold VX6 1-6 and Deltapoint with a white light and CT Laser for the long range stage. I'll probably swap guns after that to my work rifle which is a little shorty 12.5" with a suppressor, white light and CT MVF-515. Only two stages will have targets much past 50 yards. One you will use your regular rifle out to about 150 yards. The target presentation will be such that if your light doesn't reach that far you'll still be able to hit them without lights. Travis and I did it a couple months ago. No problem, although the illuminated reticle was a big help. The other stage will be at 170 with a stage rifle. Other than that everything will be reasonably close, only one other 50 yard rifle shot and four more 50 yard handgun shots.

Yes to all three. I'm not sold on the last one. These are proposed rules. Anything can change with enough input and comments to your AD or here. That's the reason the rules are up before we voted on them.

I thought the same thing when Chris sent them to me. I was hoping for a nice short rule set. When I actually tried to go in and cut stuff out that I thought wasn't needed...well there really wasn't much there to cut. How about some constructive criticism? What 30 pages can be removed. Keep in mind this is a rule set that needs to be used for everything from National Championships with a dedicated staff to the small local matches that might not have the veteran 3 gun staff that can pull on past experience or old USPSA rules for rulings and decisions.

What happens if the slide stop breaks, falls off or whatever during a match? I have a GLOCK that broke the external part of its slide stop off when I had a case head separation, the gun was fully functional after the incident just the little metal piece was missing, this happened during a practice session so no big deal, but if this happened during a match and I did not have a replacement on hand would I be bumped to Open? Mike Sucks, but let me ask you this. If your firing pin safety suddenly fell out of a match leaving you without that functioning as a safety would it be a bump to Open? There is nothing in the rules about intent in how the modifications are made. If the gun is modified, intentionally, accidentally, by the rabid squirrel that lives in your gun bag it doesn't matter. If we start trying to attribute motive to the modifications it's a whole other section to an already long rule book. To put it another way, before Production, when I was shooting Glocks in Limited, I trimmed the slide stop on most of my guns and flat out removed it on others. Let's say I was still doing that particular modification and make it halfway through the Nationals before an RO notices. If we try to allow broken parts to be an excuse I would probably be standing there with an innocent look on my face saying, "Well golly gee, it must have broken off during the stage. It was just there a minute ago."

What Production gun are you referring to? There aren't too many with ambi Decockers. You might have removed the decock and made it into another approved model. I could see something like this with the HK USP series. The levers are made in several different configurations, including models that don't have them at all. If this was the case, maybe. If it's a CZ, I think you're out of luck.

Done

It isn't just team slots. It's also slots to shoot the main match. We're expecting to have significantly more interest than available slots for this match. If you want to go, you have to shoot at least one match this year, either the USPSA Nats, or IPSC Nats. You have to shoot at least one IPSC Nats to qualify for a spot in the WS. There are 600 spots available for the IPSC Nationals this year. No guarantees on next year. If you have any interested at all in shooting in the World Shoot read the WS policy. If you have questions contact your AD. You need to do it quick though. IPSC Nats are coming up in a couple months.

WTH is practiscore. Get with the times Mayor. It's an Iphone/Itouch based scoring software developed by Ken Nelson and Nifty Bites. We scored the Area 1 match this year using it. Pretty cool system. No messing around with entering score sheets into the the computer. It just dumps straight to the scoring system as soon as it's entered. You can find the results at www.practiscore.com. Look for match results and Ironman TS https://www.practiscore.com//match-results/uuid?uuid=950B9680-DC3A-41C2-B8C6-1C7E0FA71AF7

From the IPSC Rule book: 15. Handguns with external hammers must be fully decocked (see Rule 8.1.2.5), at the start signal. First shot attempted must be double action. Competitors in this Division who, after the issuance of the start signal and prior to attempting the first shot, cock the hammer on a handgun which has a loaded chamber, will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence. Note that a procedural penalty will not be assessed in respect of courses of fire where the ready condition requires the competitor to prepare the handgun with an empty chamber. In these cases, the competitor may fire the first shot single action