Flexmoney Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 That's just bad stage design or at least it looks like it on paper. It has no bases in anything remotely practical. Perhaps the practicality comes from the skill set needed, and not the scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I've hidden a few posts in this thread. Please refrain from the name calling. Attitude Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 That is an ICORE stage first off - second - what about that is hard? Heck you don't even have to move from one spot! I shot a state match in 2011 that had a solid walled MEMORY stage. All the targets looked identical. I was first up and got lucky and got them all but it was like I was clearing rooms searching for bad guys. The suck part is the guys that lived around there walked up and shot the stage the fastest from a couple of positions. If the stage REQUIRES you to show up a day in advance just to figure it out, it's to damn complicated. Showing up a day in advance is always nice as you can get a feel for TE stage and walk it if nobody is on it but you shouldn't be required to do to the difficulty of the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Agree Corey. If a B/C shooter can't figure it out in a few minutes, then it is probably too much. For those that say memory has no part in the "practical", spend some time with a Team studing the blueprints and photos and such in preparing to enter a building (or area) with the potential for hostilities. It makes what we do look easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Agree Corey. If a B/C shooter can't figure it out in a few minutes, then it is probably too much. For those that say memory has no part in the "practical", spend some time with a Team studing the blueprints and photos and such in preparing to enter a building (or area) with the potential for hostilities. It makes what we do look easy. what does an entry team have to do with "practical shooting"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Mark the difference there is a entry team is "searching" for threats or non threats. Sure they take blue prints and in a short time have a plan of attack but I wanna know where those targets are not search for them. I'm playing a game. The entry team is saving lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I agree, that is the point, we are gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) That's just bad stage design or at least it looks like it on paper. It has no bases in anything remotely practical. Perhaps the practicality comes from the skill set needed, and not the scenario? Perhaps. But I'd have to ask what skill that it was testing. The only practical skill I can see that it would test is the ability to shoot people in the balls. Or if you were attacked by a mad band of acrobats. Edited April 5, 2013 by GigG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 The only practical skill I can see that it would test is the ability to shoot people in the balls. I don't think there was a bonus for ball shooting? While some "practical" practitioners speak to shoot to the pelvic girdle, our targets do not reward shoots to that area. Or if you were attacked by a mad band of acrobats. Can't you use that some logic and apply it to nearly any stage that we shoot? 32 rounds of pistol? The practical isn't really in the scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 That is an ICORE stage first off - second - what about that is hard? Heck you don't even have to move from one spot! I shot a state match in 2011 that had a solid walled MEMORY stage. All the targets looked identical. I was first up and got lucky and got them all but it was like I was clearing rooms searching for bad guys. The suck part is the guys that lived around there walked up and shot the stage the fastest from a couple of positions. If the stage REQUIRES you to show up a day in advance just to figure it out, it's to damn complicated. Showing up a day in advance is always nice as you can get a feel for TE stage and walk it if nobody is on it but you shouldn't be required to do to the difficulty of the stage. Agreed. A stage that has every target identical makes it tough to plan where to engage it from. I like stages where you can tell the targets apart, but have 2,3, or 4 available places to engage them from. Now you have to make a plan, stick to it, and not forget which targets you have already engaged. You can then try and find the most expedicious method of getting through the stage for that division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 The only practical skill I can see that it would test is the ability to shoot people in the balls. I don't think there was a bonus for ball shooting? While some "practical" practitioners speak to shoot to the pelvic girdle, our targets do not reward shoots to that area. Or if you were attacked by a mad band of acrobats. Can't you use that some logic and apply it to nearly any stage that we shoot? 32 rounds of pistol? The practical isn't really in the scenario. The ball comment was aimed (no pun intended) towards the upside down targets. The only lower A/B zone I can think of are the Anus/Balls. Of course 32 round courses are silly. But they are, at least fun, and when properly designed allow us to test a shooter's problem solving skills in a time efficient manner. At least more efficient than 4 separate 8 round stages. Remember when we used to try and design courses to be revolver neutral? Of course the highest capacity gun then was 10 round .38 Super. That clearly has gone out the window. And have no idea what they teach at the CRO training level about course design any more. Though I am going to have to find out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Remember when we used to try and design courses to be revolver neutral? Of course the highest capacity gun then was 10 round .38 Super. That clearly has gone out the window. And have no idea what they teach at the CRO training level about course design any more. Though I am going to have to find out soon. Sorry for the thread drift, but I have a problem with revolver neutral. At my club, we have 1 revolver shooter who always shows up out of 40-50 shooters. On occasion we may get one other out-of-town shooter who shows up, but very infrequently. So for 30-50 shooters, do I design stages that are 6 shot neutral? I plan my stages according to the rulebook (force no more than 8 shots from a single position, freestyle, multi-view target arrangements). I'll occasionally think about my 1 revo shooter and setup a stage for him, but I really don't think about it during stage design. Now if I had more revo participation, then I would put more thought into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Revolver neutral does not mean 6/6/6/6. That's a sucky stage. Just like 8/8/8/8 is a sucky stage. Mix it up. 2/4/6/3/5 or whatever. Works for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 IMO, the best stages can't be described as X/X/X/X. They don't have fixed locations, and you can engage multiple targets from any number of spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I like stages of 2,3,4 targets from each position. It is Revolver neutral, Production neutral, SS neutral, everything is Lim and Open neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Clearly revolver neutrality has gone the way of the dinosaur. I shot a classifier where 8 rounds were shot from one spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Posted September 20, 2013 Share Posted September 20, 2013 IMO, the best stages can't be described as X/X/X/X. They don't have fixed locations, and you can engage multiple targets from any number of spots.X2, agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I hate memory stages..... not sure if this is a subset of gotcha stages. I want to be challenged on my shooting skills... not memory. I've only shot a handful of what I would call memory stages... all stages require you to remember some things. I went first for our squad on the memory stage at A8, only had the 5 minutes to look, It was a catastrophe! I learned later there were only 3-4 positions required to shoot every target on the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Revolver neutral does not mean 6/6/6/6. That's a sucky stage. Just like 8/8/8/8 is a sucky stage. Mix it up. 2/4/6/3/5 or whatever. Works for everybody. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 There is no such thing as a "memory" stage. Disagree. I have seen stages that require some targets to be shot once some twice others three times all virgina count all on the same stage. That is a memory stage and I don't care for them. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Clearly revolver neutrality has gone the way of the dinosaur. I shot a classifier where 8 rounds were shot from one spot. Revolver neutral stages are boring for the rest of us. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Clearly revolver neutrality has gone the way of the dinosaur. I shot a classifier where 8 rounds were shot from one spot. Revolver neutral stages are boring for the rest of us. Pat It is, if the stage designer does not know what he is doing. If he has half a clue, the stage will be good for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Clearly revolver neutrality has gone the way of the dinosaur. I shot a classifier where 8 rounds were shot from one spot. Revolver neutral stages are boring for the rest of us. Pat It is, if the stage designer does not know what he is doing. If he has half a clue, the stage will be good for everyone. 6 rounds or less per target array is just boring to me. I can tolerate 8 round target arrays but 6 gets boring to me. I came to shoot. I feel that revolver neutral stages belong in revolver only matches. I also hate the idea of having to make a match for all divisions having to accommodate the most obsolete ones there at the match. To make matters worse there is generally only 1 or 2 revolver guys. Pat Edited September 23, 2013 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Clearly revolver neutrality has gone the way of the dinosaur. I shot a classifier where 8 rounds were shot from one spot. Revolver neutral stages are boring for the rest of us. Pat It is, if the stage designer does not know what he is doing. If he has half a clue, the stage will be good for everyone. 6 rounds or less per target array is just boring to me. I can tolerate 8 round target arrays but 6 gets boring to me. I came to shoot. I feel that revolver neutral stages belong in revolver only matches. I also hate the idea of having to make a match for all divisions having to accommodate the most obsolete ones there at the match. To make matters worse there is generally only 1 or 2 revolver guys. Pat Agreed +++1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 6 rounds or less per target array is just boring to me. Revolver neutral stages don't need to be arrays of 6 or less. They certainly don't need to be boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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