"Gotcha" stages

[Carmoney]

Can someone show an example of a "memory" stage that they could not figure out?

It's not that they can't be figured out.....it's that they can't always be figured out within the 5 minute walk-through while 18 confused shooters are all trying to occupy the same sweet spots.

I'm pretty experienced, and fairly decent at breaking down stages....but I vividly remember a few couple stages over the years that I could not get figured out within the 5 minutes (one at Area 5 when it was in Kentucky, one at the Summer Blast in York, PA are two that come to mind). It's no fun to be the first shooter in the squad and have that panicked feeling!

[seanc]

That is an ICORE stage first off - second - what about that is hard? Heck you don't even have to move from one spot!

That's why I said not even sure its legal in uspsa, to me its a memory stage because targets are required to be engaged in a specific order.

For me, that is a goofy memory stage.

[ktm300]

If I had to get a good plan for all stages in 5 minutes I would be toast. I spent 20+ minutes at each stage at the Florida Open the day before the match and none of those were "memory stages" They just had lots of options. I can set up simple stuff at the house. I like having to work hard for a good plan at a match. I like stages where there are a lot of good ways to shoot the stage so part of the fun is figuring it out the best way for you. The skill set has to include the ability to break down stages, get a plan, and follow it.

I don't mind shots close to the 180 as long as it is very hard to shoot it from 181 because of a well placed no shoot or wall. Reloads while traveling along the 180 are hard for people but we are supposed to be muzzle aware.

I like stages where the targets are set in such a way that shooting on the move is possible but a little risky.

I am not too fond of stages that make me lay on the ground because it seems like every time that is the idea it rains.

If gotcha means a lot of movers and hard shots, I love gotcha stages.

To me, the only gotcha stages are ones that try and get a shooter to DQ. Those are not fun for anyone.

[38SuperDub]

That is an ICORE stage first off - second - what about that is hard? Heck you don't even have to move from one spot!

That's why I said not even sure its legal in uspsa, to me its a memory stage because targets are required to be engaged in a specific order.

For me, that is a goofy memory stage.

Uhhh - no they don't.

All it says is to engage t1-9 with 1 shot each, then reengage 1-9 with 1 shot each I could go 1,3,5,7,9,2,4,6,8 then 8,7,9,6,5,3,4,1,2 if I wanted to.

[lugnut]

This is what I consider a memory stage....

http://www.icore.org...-LouisianaX.pdf

I'm not even sure its legal in USPSA?

I don't consider that challenging memory stage. A7 a few years back in Fulton had a stage called Rosie's BBQ or something maybe not even close to that. Lots of walls with openings, activators/movers all over the place, lots of memory.

EDIT. LOL... I found the stage description. I was close. It was "A BBQ for Rosa"!

A_BBQ_for_Rosa.pdf

Edited March 27, 2013 by lugnut

[motosapiens]

I think every post in this thread translates to the same thing:

I consider a stage an unfair evil mean gotcha stage if it's hard for me to come up with a plan I can follow.

I consider a stage a fair challenging fun proper stage if I can come up with a plan, but a few other shooters struggle with it.

I don't mind stages that are hard enough that I struggle with coming up with a decent plan, but I don't want to shoot a match that had 2/3 of the stages that complicated and flowless. Variety is good.

[lugnut]

Here's the problem with these "gotcha/memory" stages. 5 minutes is the allowed time for a walk through. The issue I have is that sometimes with squads of 12 or more (locally I've seen squads of up to 20) you just don't have time. You end up having people tripping over each other trying to decide what to do. Inevitably one or two people think they own the range further worsening the situation. I'm with Carmoney on this.

I usually get the range early when I can but if not, I'd prefer not to F up my match on 1 "gotcha" stage.

[B_Seehawer]

I think that everyone has their own interpretation of a "gotcha" stage.

[Mark R]

Here's the "Gotcha" Stage from the 2013 Alabama Section Match just shot a couple weeks ago.

And It has options too...you can go left or you can go right.

[BillChunn]

2011 Ohio Championship had what everyone was calling a "memory" stage. The targets were lined up in a straight line across the backstop and there were red and white colored poles designating firing line positions. There were "T" shaped walls in front of the targets. The shooting area ran parallel to the line of targets and had a start box on either end. Targets could be shot from multiple locations. Arriving on Friday to watch the match staff shoot the stage helped along with some clandestine eavesdropping on some of the Master class shooters in that squad.

When the stage was clear, we spent about 30 minutes figuring out how each of our squad members was going to shoot the stage with their different capacity guns. We got into arguements as to which target had already been shot and from where so we ended up putting different sized / colored rocks at the bottom of the targets so we could figure out a plan. For Production and L-10, they had to shoot the first target and then do a reload to get to a point where they would be traversing the shooting box for their second reload.

It's was fun and ended up being one of the better stage finishes of my match.

A video of Tony Jones shooting the stage is on

starting at the 1:29 mark.

BC

Edited March 28, 2013 by BillChunn

[Flexmoney]

Stages with options...stages that make you think...gotcha stages... Those are all different things, IMHO.

Thats what I call it, stages with options... The haters call it gotcha stages....

There are gotcha stages. Those are not necessarily the same as from stages with options.

[38SuperDub]

Here's the "Gotcha" Stage from the 2013 Alabama Section Match just shot a couple weeks ago.

And It has options too...you can go left or you can go right.

Uhhhh did this take you more than 5 min to figure?!?!?!?

There is nothing that isn't super straight forward about this stage.

[B_Seehawer]

As an open shooter, I was seriously licking my chops when I saw the video of Blake running it.

Pure beauty and evil.

Hell, the only "gotcha" stages are the ones that "getcha".

I've had straight forward classifiers turn into "gotcha" status;)

[Mark R]

Here's the "Gotcha" Stage from the 2013 Alabama Section Match just shot a couple weeks ago.

And It has options too...you can go left or you can go right.

Uhhhh did this take you more than 5 min to figure?!?!?!?

There is nothing that isn't super straight forward about this stage.

Only reason I posted it was becasue it WAS name Gotcha. Nothing to do with a gotcha stage. But thanks for the comment.

[lugnut]

Stages with options...stages that make you think...gotcha stages... Those are all different things, IMHO.

Thats what I call it, stages with options... The haters call it gotcha stages....

There are gotcha stages. Those are not necessarily the same as from stages with options.

Agree 100%!

[38SuperDub]

Here's the "Gotcha" Stage from the 2013 Alabama Section Match just shot a couple weeks ago.

And It has options too...you can go left or you can go right.

Uhhhh did this take you more than 5 min to figure?!?!?!?

There is nothing that isn't super straight forward about this stage.

Only reason I posted it was becasue it WAS name Gotcha. Nothing to do with a gotcha stage. But thanks for the comment.

Guess I missed the sarcasm in the post. My apologies.

[a matt]

As an open shooter, I was seriously licking my chops when I saw the video of Blake running it.

Pure beauty and evil.

Hell, the only "gotcha" stages are the ones that "getcha".

I've had straight forward classifiers turn into "gotcha" status;)

I guess that was a gotcha stage for him 2 mike = gotcha

[Supermoto]

http://vimeo.com/62866588

This memory stage still haunts me, This was when I first started, never had seen a stage like this before. I was one of the first shooters, not that going later would have helped, had 4 different plans and they all went out the window when the buzzer went off. I needed a GPS to get through it

[lugnut]

http://vimeo.com/62866588

This memory stage still haunts me, This was when I first started, never had seen a stage like this before. I was one of the first shooters, not that going later would have helped, had 4 different plans and they all went out the window when the buzzer went off. I needed a GPS to get through it

Let it go Mike... let it go....

[shred]

Any stage that is so timing or position-specific that it takes a couple days for the 'correct' order to be worked out is stupid in a major match because all the people that shoot it the first day get screwed. Fun at a club level, not so much further up.

And yes, if you ever shoot an IPSC match, you will be lucky to get 5 minutes with the whole squad to walk the stage (I think we were at 3 or 4 minutes in New Zealand), and you will not be allowed to walk the stage beforehand. Something to consider for those of you thinking of World Shoot 2014.

[MFP4073]

This memory stage still haunts me, This was when I first started, never had seen a stage like this before. I was one of the first shooters, not that going later would have helped, had 4 different plans and they all went out the window when the buzzer went off. I needed a GPS to get through it

Ahhh yes... I remember having trouble with that one as well. 2006 A7 Championship?? I have a similar video. i was shooting limited. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

[GigG]

Here's the "Gotcha" Stage from the 2013 Alabama Section Match just shot a couple weeks ago.

And It has options too...you can go left or you can go right.

That's just bad stage design or at least it looks like it on paper. It has no bases in anything remotely practical.

That said I've been away from the game for a while but I have little doubt that back when I qualified as a CRO had I turned in that stage to my instructor he would have at best handed it back to me and said try again.

[Mark R]

But it was fun...KC did it in 8.96 seconds. There is a video on youtube, but don't have the link right now.

[Chris iliff]

Chris Keen's stage at Ohio State, mentioned above, was the single most "gotcha" type stage I've ever shot. It was pure evil and I loved every minute of it.

With that said, I spent over an hour total the day before looking at it. I ended up shooting it ok, but I was thinking the whole way.

By the time the match wore on, the RO's caught on to the "marker" thing and periodically moved or checked and eliminated all markers left by shooters during walk throughs. It was a tough stage!!!

Edited April 2, 2013 by Chris iliff

[Pete Whyte]

At our club, at weekly matches, most of the members arrive early & we all help set up. The only time I think someone has an advantage is when stages are set up a day or two before the match. Usually a larger match. As far as shooters coming in late & not helping, that will continue. Most of the time, during a weeknight shoot, we understand some are just getting out of work & some ,for whatever reason they just will never help. I'm a retired welder/ fabricator and can take the time to go over the club and build or repair target stands and props.I also get a lot of offers to help. I shoot my revolver 95% of the time so for me there will always be a challenge for me I'm just happy I'm still able to do it. As in my previous post I still feel there are shooters out there that will go out in the middle of the night, with a flashlight, to practice the stage.Most of the people I shoot with are there to enjoy the match and really do not care, or complain how hard a stage is. Some shoot for fun and some shoot thinking their going to win the Caddy. I have shot some stages where you could break the 180 if you approached the stage a certain way. Just have to be careful, I guess. I have not heard anyone bitch about stage design at our club, not saying it they don't, I just haven't heard them. Our R.O.s go over every stage that is set to make sure their shootable. Enough venting..... Pete