Grip Force

[cgrivois]

Shot at a major this past weekend and after the match I was talking with a few master class shooters and they were discussing grip strength training, and the equipment they use to accomplish this. I tried one of the gismos they had and it took quite a bit of force to manipulate this thing. This then got me thinking, how much grip force should I be using when I grip the gun? To be honest I don’t pay a lot of attention too my grip one the buzzer goes off. I just draw and acquire the front sight post as quick as I can. How much thought needs to go into the amount of grip force applied?

[sirveyr]

70% weak hand and 30% strong hand.

[APL-G35]

I think most tend to think of it as a percentage like sirveyer. I believe the reason most want a really strong grip is that as you strength goes up you can maintain that same "percentage" of grip but in reality have a much firmer hold and stronger forearm muscles to control recoil.

[GuyC]

70% weak hand and 30% strong hand.

This drives me nuts. I have small hands and have tried the 70/30 thing and I just can't get enough surface area to get the 70% weak hand. I think I am more around 60% strong hand and 40% weak hand. The weak hand just can't wrap around the strong hand with adequate clamping force. I am not a Master yet, but am starting to shoot master percentage classifiers. Should I I try to change my grip, or just role with it?

Edited February 14, 2012 by GuyC

[TWHaz]

70% weak hand and 30% strong hand.

This drives me nuts. I have small hands and have tried the 70/30 thing and I just can't get enough surface area to get the 70% weak hand. I think I am more around 60% strong hand and 40% weak hand. The weak hand just can't wrap around the strong hand with adequate clamping force. I am not a Master yet, but am starting to shoot master percentage classifiers. Should I I try to change my grip, or just role with it?

How about this. Keeping in mind, if i can apply 150# of grip force and you can apply 80# the 70/30 will produce different results for each of us. You should grip as much as YOU can, without causing manipulation problems with your trigger and transitions. I have found if I death grip with my strong hand it slows my trigger finger down. If i death grip my support hand it slows target transitins. Bottom line use the maximum pressure YOU can while still manipulating the pistol quickly and accuratly. Continue to work your grip strength thru exercise. It will all come together with time. At practice work on your grip.Pay attention to how things feel. At the Match just shoot and remember how things looked and feel when things go right and repeat. IMHO you do not "control" recoil. You watch your sights and with proper grip, stance and timing (fudamentals) your transitions and splits get faster. Ever notice how some of your best stages, seemed like you were in slow motion?

Edited February 14, 2012 by TWHaz

[calvary45]

How much thought needs to go into the amount of grip force applied?

No thought should be involved with the grip while shooting, honestly i cannot tell how much grip pressure i use during a COF and it constantly changes during the COF.

You said it right by just draw and acquire the sights as quick as possible. I do alot of grip work to increase my grip strength but i never consentrate on my grip while shooting i just shoot my grip will be there(or I'll drop the gun ) .02

[JD45]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=94865&st=0&p=1086661&fromsearch=1entry1086661

[BOOST]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm9uG5bPubw

I like this .......

[benos]

Overall, pretty much what Travis said.

On increasing grip strength - everything you can do to increase your grip strength is a good thing.

Train your grip and grip strengh in practice, then don't think about it in a match.

A search as depicted in the attachment will bring up tons of good grip info threads.

be

[cgrivois]

Thanks for the reply I think I got it.

[Malchira]

Overall, pretty much what Travis said.

Brian,

I've wondered about this. Is this an evolution over time from your book? If I remember correctly, you wrote along the lines of the same grip force you'd use to swing a hammer, which I took as being rather less than the 100% Travis referenced. Of course, alternately, that may explain why I'm not so good with a hammer.

[benos]

I'd say a hammer-swinging grip would be pretty close. But the most important thing is, though, for you to experiment for yourself and find what grip pressure gives you the most consistent sight tracking (that being the goal).

[jeremy kemlo]

I like to take one of the things you squeeze for grip strength...while squeezing it try to relax your trigger finger only and practice trigger press.

[ck1]

For me, the whole percentage thing just seems too clinical, I now have come around to thinking/believing it's really more about one's support-hand than strong-hand, meaning that the support-hand does more of the heavy lifting, but I tend to think/believe everybody's perception of how much is right for them percentage-wise is different depending on the individual...

I think of the grip-strength thing in simpler terms: if the goal is to hold the gun as solid as you can while being relaxed enough to manipulate the trigger properly and without inducing trembling or getting fatigued quickly, than that's exactly what one should try to do. That said, using a grip-strength trainer like a Captains of Crush or something can help big time, since, in effect, you're "resetting" your casual/relaxed/comfortable setting as to how solidly you can hold the pistol while still being able to be relaxed and maintain good trigger technique; say if your old "grip-force-while-still-relaxed-setting" was a "2" in terms of how solidly you could grip the gun, after you increase your grip strength for a while with some training, your new "grip-force-while-still-relaxed-setting" can be up to maybe a "7" or more (stronger, more like it's in a vise), which as long as you're able to still be relaxed and not fatigue quickly, is just plain better as it's more steady and can recover/control the gun better while aiming and under recoil.

I used a $6 grip-strengthener from Wally-mart for a couple weeks and then I saw some real improvement, since then I've now got a Captains of Crush #2 in both my vehicles that I just play with doing reps as I'm driving around, the payoff has been huge for me, maybe/probably more improvement than from anything I could have done from many months and boat-loads of rounds on the range.

Hear me now, believe me later, a stronger grip is a plus.

This subject is right up there towards the top of the list of the many many awesome things I've picked up from the benos forum. Maybe it's not really a question of trying to do anything more per se than you're already doing right now, maybe you just need to make yourself into someone possessing a little more built-in grip-strength who's doing it.

Edited February 20, 2012 by ck1

[JD45]

You "play around" with the #2 for reps?? For your first gripper??? You could definitely get certified on the #3 one day.

[ck1]

You "play around" with the #2 for reps?? For your first gripper??? You could definitely get certified on the #3 one day.

No, got the #1 first and actually laughed out loud when I felt how tough it was even after about a month closing a cheapo one for lots of reps... Took maybe 2-3 months to be able to close the #1 over and over, now I've got a pretty strong grip and use the #2 casually in order to maintain it, don't know if I'll ever really need the #3, it must be crazy tough!

[KungFuNerd]

For a Grip Trainer look at the Dynaflex Gyroball

http://www.practicerange.com/DynaFlex-Power-Ball-Gyro-Trainer-P453.aspx

They have different strengths as well as some that are attached to handles.

I like these because you keep mobility in your Wrists while using them as opposed to just a clamped down Visegrip action.

Some Rock Climbing buddies of mine showed them to me a while back and I like it.

Has helped me a lot and I have some old wrist injuries.

[Rotisiv]

Has anyone else used the Dynaflex powerball.

[BillGarlandJr]

If you're into killing multiple birds with one stone, try kettlebell swings. High rep kettlebell swings will work the heck out of your grip, but that is just a secondary benefit. The greatest benefit will be improved explosive strength in your legs, a stronger core, and superb conditioning....all of which will help your shooting. I've been using kettlebells for the past 14 months both as part of CrossFit and by themselves, and I feel like I have much better control of the handgun in recoil. I've recommended them for some of the officers I teach and they have realized benefits from using the kettlebells as well. Worth giving a try IMHO

[thebridge]

I believe everyone could use some weak hand grip improvement. If you do not work on it you will not be able to keep up a good 70/30 or even a 60/40 grip through a full match. When we start to relax and just shoot without training I bet it goes to round 50/50.

[ardo]

Not everyone can develop the 'grip of steel'. I was overly enthusiastic about this, using a bunch of hand-grip trainers (including the powerball), only to end up with tennis elbow in both arms.

That happened about 8 months ago. I felt no better after months of therapy, anti-inflammatory pills, cremes etc. - probably because I continued shooting 2-3 times a week. That was non-negotiable.

Then, I was introduced to the 'weak hand index finger on trigger guard' grip, by a disciple of Eric, no less. It felt awkward at first, but I got used to it in a couple of weeks. That was over 3 months ago.

Today I'm almost pain-free. I grip the gun forward to back, not side to side. This leaves my trigger finger loose to do its thing. My palms are still covering the grip where they're supposed to (less so for the weak hand because of the index finger being elsewhere), but they are holding the grip lightly. Yes, I do have less recoil control because I don't cant the palm of my WH downwards, but I had to accept this to stay pain-free.

Sorry for being off-topic, I just wanted to warn against overdoing grip exercises from the get-go, especially if you're an older dude like me.

[Edubya]

Not everyone can develop the 'grip of steel'. I was overly enthusiastic about this, using a bunch of hand-grip trainers (including the powerball), only to end up with tennis elbow in both arms.

That happened about 8 months ago. I felt no better after months of therapy, anti-inflammatory pills, cremes etc. - probably because I continued shooting 2-3 times a week. That was non-negotiable.

Then, I was introduced to the 'weak hand index finger on trigger guard' grip, by a disciple of Eric, no less. It felt awkward at first, but I got used to it in a couple of weeks. That was over 3 months ago.

Today I'm almost pain-free. I grip the gun forward to back, not side to side. This leaves my trigger finger loose to do its thing. My palms are still covering the grip where they're supposed to (less so for the weak hand because of the index finger being elsewhere), but they are holding the grip lightly. Yes, I do have less recoil control because I don't cant the palm of my WH downwards, but I had to accept this to stay pain-free.

Sorry for being off-topic, I just wanted to warn against overdoing grip exercises from the get-go, especially if you're an older dude like me.

Sorry that you're having tennis elbow and that the pain pills and creams didn't help but have you ever used the strap around your forearm? I did not believe it would work but after about 36 hours of it, I felt relief. It;s really just a strap with Velcro and it is only tight enough to hold it just below the elbow. Check you pharmacy for it. It's much simpler than anything and works great.

EW

[DoubleA]

At one point I was just working with tennis balls while on the road. I had tried a couple of different grip strengtheners from Walmart and academy, but they were just good for endurance and not actually strengthening.

I didn't notice a whole lot of change in my splits or sight tracking except that after I would do my first mag change everything would speed up without effort. I think that it was due to when I'd bring my weakhand back onto the gun the initial pressure was increased over that of the draw. I'm guessing it is my brain realizing that I'm not dryfiring now and need to adjust and drive the gun. Anyone else have this observation? Im starting to think my grip strength is fine, it's just that my brain isn't...

[Jolly Green]

I think the average, even weak, person has sufficient grip strength for pistol shooting. I certainly do. What else are we looking to develop while building grip squeezing strength? The ability to isolate hand squeezing pressure without tightening up other arm, back, neck and abdominal muscles? wrist and trigger finger dexterity while at max grip?

[Eric_Vmax]

I think the average, even weak, person has sufficient grip strength for pistol shooting. I certainly do. What else are we looking to develop while building grip squeezing strength? The ability to isolate hand squeezing pressure without tightening up other arm, back, neck and abdominal muscles? wrist and trigger finger dexterity while at max grip?

Good info, saving that link in my training folder!