Discussion on gun cleaning

[hitman]

Guess I will jump in on this.

For me there is cleaning then there is cleaniiinnngg.

I generally pull the top end and whipe everything off, lube, reasimble after each match.

Maybe, just maybe once a year I brak everything down, clean, inspect, reasimble & lube.

[JTew]

I'm just not seeing anybody come up with evidence or proof in this thread...it's all "I think, or I feel, or it's what somebody told me 35 years ago". If those same folks ran their gun until it started puking they might actually have some sort of facts or data and really know where they stand.

I think the above is all that matters. I clean my guns, not for some reason of increased reliability, testing its long term function or military training thoughts, I personally just like my equipment clean. It does make me feel better and thats all that matters to the individual shooter. I have gone at times, a few weeks, without cleaning my guns and I did not have any problems as far as reliability goes and I do believe it would function dirty for many thousand rounds. I am not trying to prove one way is better than another. I just like to keep them clean so I do. If that makes my barrel go bad sooner, so be it, I will just replace it and continue on where I left off. This is a relatively expensive game to play and replacing a barrel, if necessary, is just one of the many costs of doing business. I'm just saying.

[XD Niner]

I clean my Brazos Open blasters every 2K rounds or so. I just use patches on my barrel and am not too anal about that final cleaning patch coming out pristine white. After all, the first round down the barrel will leave deposits.

I do clean out the Aftec extractor every other cleaning. The whole thing gets lubed with Slide Glide Lite before it is reassembled.

I've not had any problems with this approach and frequency.

I do about the same for my XD-9 and 1911's but use regular Slide Glide on them.

I now only shoot Montana Gold or Zero JHP's through all my guns and have since I started reloading about three years ago. I shot WWB and Blazer FMJ's before then. The JHP's cut way down on the gunk compared to FMJ's and essentially eliminates any lead fouling.

[Walküre]

Personally, I won't take a gun to a major match that hasn't had at least a couple of mags run through it after a cleaning. R,

Same here. If I have just cleaned my Limited gun before a big match, I will at least run all four 20rd mags through it before packing it up.

Cleaning after every use is far overblown, IMO. If I were cleaning my guns after every single time I took them out to shoot, I'd be breaking them down several times a week during peak season.

More often than not, my guns get cleaned because I'm doing something else. That is, since I'm replacing springs/grips/whatever and have the gun at least partially stripped, I go ahead and clean it.

[G-ManBart]

Shot a local match yesterday. A guy steps up, loads, buzzer goes off "click". Tap, rack, "click", reloads, "click". The RO clears him and he goes to the safety area...not sure what he does, but he checks some stuff on the gun. A few minutes later he steps up, loads, buzzer goes off, "click" again....same drill. I went over to the safety area with him and we took the gun apart. He said "I just shot 200 rounds with this gun yesterday and it was perfect". I said "did you clean it afterwards?"....the lightbulb came on. I asked if he checked that the FP safety lever was moving. He hadn't and it wasn't. Seems when he put the gun back together the pin missed the hole in that lever so it wasn't raising up the way it should. Fixed that and the gun ran just fine. Guess he's going to have to add more steps to his post-cleaning routine.

[lucasb67]

another exemple of I think about religious cleaning

if in one stage I hae to cheange a magazine, when it ends, beetwen two stages, I disassembly the magazine follen and clean it

I think that who says his gun is perfect also cleaned few time after K rounds, perhaps only before a important match, he doesn't admit it is so becouse his laziness ... no problem, everyone have own opinion, but I think it is not correct to say that the gun operate at the same reliability

[Fishin6061]

I shoot what seems to be a dirty load in my single stack 45. With that in mind I clean religiously after every shooting session. To get the lead out I use bronze choreboy wrapped around an under sized brush, spray and wipe the gun down with remoil or wd40, and clean the extractor well with a stiff nylon brush. Apply militec, reassemble, and shoot some more!!!!!!!!!!!!

[guns_and_labs]

I clean my Limited pistol after about 1000 rounds, but I don't find I need to use a brush.

I tried to shoot to failure once with a match single stack pistol and once with my .22LR bullseye pistol... and they both failed from grit and gunk at a little over 2000 rounds. So, I clean.

With my competition rifle, it gets cleaned every 100 rounds, because I can see the accuracy fall off at that point. With the pistols, they seem to gunk up before accuracy falls off, so I'm not sure how far I can go.

[gregdavidl]

I always shoot very dirty guns (.45's with lead bullets) and just keep adding more oil every time I go shoot. Eventually out of boredom I will remove the grips, put the gun in a shallow metal pan, cover with WD-40 and let it soak. It's easy to scrub with a brush at that point and a couple of passes with a bore brush wrapped with bronze steel wool takes care of the rest. Drain the WD-40 back into the gallon container and the solids will settle out before the next use. Compressed air is your friend. At a nationals I was once asked how many rounds I had through the gun and I told him I honestly did not know, but over 3,000. My primary gun has over 80,000 rounds through it and the backup has over 50,000 and they still shoot better than I do. If you have the opportunity, check out one of TGO's guns sometime. Rob also apparently prefers to shoot them than clean them.

[Glockcomma]

I love my guns, I have no life thus I clean my guns frequently. I know them well and have never had one not go bang after cleaning in over 20 years, I shoot 9mm Major and have lightened up on how I clean the bore one patch of #9 one patch of FP-10 done.

Tim

[kevin c]

I used to clean after every session, but, as I've gotten older, I find I have other needs for the time.

I mainly clean now before majors, because the detailed inspection I do is part of the routine to make absolutely sure that any screwups will be me and not the gun.

It helps (at least as far as the cosmetics go) that I shoot Glocks using CMJ bullets over clean powders.

[MemphisMechanic]

Neither my current m&p 9L nor my previous Glock 34 ever got anything more than a boresnake. Thats 50k+ without ever seeing a patch.

Every 500-1500 they get the lower scrubbed without any disassembly, the stiker tunnel and extractor cleaned, boresnaked, and oiled. Thats it.

I do a total disassembly before a HUGE match, shoot a 75rnd indoor IDPA to make sure it works, then the big match.

I do try to keep the gun well oiled every 500ish rounds, though. Mainly to keep the trigger nice and smooth and the slide slick.

[Vlad]

I cleaned some guns today .. It was kinda funny.

First I cleaned the wife's Ruger MKIII which has not had as much as bore snake through it in some 3k rounds or so, it was just ran with some extra oil and whatever factory grease it came with. Being a MkII/MkIII it was a royal pain in the ass though mad props to Bill Ruger because that thing still runs like a top despite the fingernail sized hunks of powder residue I've removed from all over the insides. I could do without the mad monkey hammering to take upper off lower or the re-assembly rubik cube routine. Then I cleaned her Sig 239 which I guess had less then 500 rounds through based on crud level. Meh, it could have waited another 1000 rounds but I already had it apart.

And then I got to some of my guns .. cause .. well .. damn. My M&P has a stainless guide rod and a long ass non-captured spring which was very confusing to me because last match I noticed that it had become captured. This annoying recoil spring that takes 3 hands to get into the gun was holding on and holding on darn well by the amount of crud built up on the tip of the guide rod. For a bit I thought I had some form of pinning of the rod, but no it was just built up. I tried to scrap it off, no go. I tried to wire brush it off, no go. Then I soaked the crap out of it left in the bench as cleaning the rest of gun. BTW did you know that the barrel has all sorts of sharp angles around the chamber and locking surfaces? Mine were all filled in with crud and to be brushed for a while with a wire brush. Haven't used a boresnake in the bore in over 1k, and I don't think I ever brushed it so I start actually brushing the bore for a while (new brush came out of plastic bag, purchased with the gun 2 years ago) and just about then SPROOOOING the recoil rod lets go of the spring which flies around the room and settles in a small storage cube. I win! I brushed the guide rod for like 5 min to bring it back to normal size, cleaned the rest of the gun, and that was done.

Then it was time to clean my AR. Now, I know of people who have to store their gun in a barrel of oil for it to run, and I know of people who refuse to mix brass nevermind shoot steel cased stuff, but none of them are me. I shoot all sorts of crap in my AR and I don't really clean it. It keeps running. I guess I got the only good one . Anyway Saturday I was stupid enough to plink for a bit with Raz-0 (he and I have this odd thing going where we pick the worst days on earth to go rifle plinking, this time it was like 10F out there, last time we tried to zero .308s in 30 mph cross winds and rain) and over lunch while I was bitching that we don't really need forward assists he mentioned he had to use the one on my gun.

Now that is serious business, I take pride in my ugly but running AR, so we can't really need the forward assist so it must have gotten odd in there. Holy crap. Most of it was dirty but within my working standards dirty but the inside of the bolt carrier was scary. Chrome plated or not, there was so much built up inside the carrier that looking from the front I couldn't tell were that shoulder was anymore. That took some scrubbing.

Anyway .. the point of this is that if you shoot your guns, you'll learn to understand when your gun is telling you it's time for a bath. I don't like cleaning guns, so I listen to my what my guns are telling me, some are pickier then others.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Vlad

[ebg3]

I have never heard of a pistol that ran better when it was dirty. The guns I own were built to run and work perfectly when clean. The dirtier they get, the more opportunity they have to fail...that being said, I'll clean my topend and re-oil the rails, lugs and barrel after 300-500rds and clean the lower every 1000rds or so. This cleaning regimen has worked well on my now retired Limited gun that has over 175,000 rds through it and it's original barrel. I am staying with this program for my new to me SV Limited gun and hopefully it will last another 150,000 rds. With the M&P I really don't care about keeping it spotless in fact I'm curious how much torture it can take before it fails. Initially, it failed when it was clean or dirty it didn't matter!

EG

[TISCHLJ]

+1 EBG3

Use clean burning propellants, keep the slide rails, bushing , if equipped, bbl and guide rod area well lubed and clean, strip the lower for detail cleaning when you think it needs it or when it gets wet.

And keep that rod wiped clean! That's what my granddad told me!

[TISCHLJ]

BTW, wet patch then dry in the bbl.

Keep chamber clean, other than that I dont worry about "scrubbing" the inside of a good bbl . . .

Keep that extractor hook and assy clean!

[G-ManBart]

I have never heard of a pistol that ran better when it was dirty. The guns I own were built to run and work perfectly when clean. The dirtier they get, the more opportunity they have to fail...\

Now this is just taking silly to the extreme.

I'm not sure who builds your guns, but it must be some super secret gunsmith making a super secret gun....what are they 2111's prototypes we haven't seen yet?

No gun designer in their right mind would ever design a gun such that it's only 100% when perfectly clean and gets constantly less relable every shot from thereafter.

Any designer has some margin built in so that the gun runs 100% with a reasonble amount of fouling. The particulars of the powder, bullet, primer, lube, etc will determine how many shots that equals before it becomes unreasonble. I don't think I've ever been able to shoot enough rounds to find that point in my guns and they're as tightly fit as any you can find anywhere...maybe I haven't tried hard enough.

It's funny, but all of my guns (1911/2011) are on the extremely well fit/tight side and I can't recall a single malfunction in the last two years with any of them...seriously...none. That either isn't a coincidence or I've got the best luck in the sport. At one point I counted the number of matches on one gun. It was 11 club matches, two sectionals, an Area match and a state championship. I think it got cleaned once or twice and never malfunctioned in any of those matches. I honestly don't know how many rounds it's gone since it's last cleaning...couple of thousand now I suspect....still no problems.

Extremely clean doesn't help, and if that's what a gun needs, something is wrong, wrong, wrong. R,

[ebg3]

I guess I'm just a silly guy! Bart, you seem to have misread what I posted. I said nothing about my guns ONLY being reliable when clean and them getting CONSTANTLY less reliable after every shot.

I know my guns will run a long time without cleaning...my point is they run perfectly when clean and lubed, they can't run better than 100% so I'll continue to keep them clean, lubed and running 100%. The fact that they will run dirty is just a bonus.

After rereading this thread, I realize it has gotten away from what the OP asked about, barrel cleaning. I'll brush my barrels if and when I detect any lead build up. With my new cast loads, I only get a few specks of lead after 400-500rds so I'll brush them out. With jacketed bullets I rarely patch or brush.

EG

Edited February 3, 2010 by ebg3

[mildot1]

I shoot lead in my limited gun.

It gets a bore snake run thru and the feed ramp cleaned every 500 or so. Then a dose of oil

Twice a year it gets stripped completly and cleaned.

I'd rather shoot it than clean it!

[cyburg]

I dry clean al my guns with patches and Qtips. Then I use a little lube and back into action.

I do not use a brush in my barrel either, only dry and punch again with a little lube after clean.

My duty sig P229 has over 45,000 rounds through it. The only reason I got a new one is that the frame cracked.

I have never placed any solvent on any of my guns. Take pride in your guns and they will take care of you.

[G-ManBart]

I guess I'm just a silly guy! Bart, you seem to have misread what I posted. I said nothing about my guns ONLY being reliable when clean and them getting CONSTANTLY less reliable after every shot.

I know my guns will run a long time without cleaning...my point is they run perfectly when clean and lubed, they can't run better than 100% so I'll continue to keep them clean, lubed and running 100%. The fact that they will run dirty is just a bonus.

After rereading this thread, I realize it has gotten away from what the OP asked about, barrel cleaning. I'll brush my barrels if and when I detect any lead build up. With my new cast loads, I only get a few specks of lead after 400-500rds so I'll brush them out. With jacketed bullets I rarely patch or brush.

EG

No, I just read what you wrote. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but you clearly said your guns were made to be 100% when clean and after that they're less reliable, or "more opportunity to fail" as you called it.

"I have never heard of a pistol that ran better when it was dirty. The guns I own were built to run and work perfectly when clean. The dirtier they get, the more opportunity they have to fail...\"

What's funny is there are plenty of guns that are cranky when squeaky clean, and a fouling shot or two seems to settle them down....so yeah, some guns run better when they aren't perfectly clean.

You're also taking 2+2 and getting 5. Just because your guns run reliably when clean, doesn't necessarily mean that's when they're most reliable. It's something that would be very difficult to test for, so you can't really state it's any more reliable 100% clean than some level of not being clean (pick your term).

Regardless, I have proof, in the evidence of watching many guns that are cleaned and reassemble NOT go bang, that clean guns aren't always the best way to go. Even people that have lots of experience, and know their guns perfectly, make mistakes and put something back improperly. Then then have a clean, non-functional gun, that they THINK is 100% reliable.

On the other hand, I don't recall the last time I saw someone shooting a gun during a match, or qualifications, draw it later on only to find that there is something wrong to the point that the gun won't function at all. That's proof, and something you can observe...and most of us have experienced it. Some folks either don't want to accept it, or can't understand it.

I like to use a simple test in matters such as this. You have to make the most important shot in the history of the world. If you fail, the world is destroyed. You own two identical guns. One of them you stripped, cleaned, put back together and then you shot 100 rounds through it with no problems. The other you stripped, cleaned and put back together. Which gun would you pick for the most important shot ever? If anybody picks the squeaky clean gun, they're nuts.

[RufDog]

Beautifully put

[ebg3]

This is becoming absurd. You have read what I said and interpreted what you wanted to "hear". I will say it again...read what I wrote, I never said my guns were only reliable when clean and they were less reliable when they were dirty. I said there is opportunity for them to become less reliable when they become dirty and that they run 100% when clean and lubed so I'll keep them clean and lubed. Also, I did not say anything about "guns" and fouling shots I specifically said pistols and I still have never seen a pistol that ran better when it was dirty. I do know a lot of rifles that shoot better with fouled barrels.

I will never try to convince anyone when or how to clean their guns, if you are happy shooting a cruddy gun go for it.

Edited February 4, 2010 by ebg3

[al503]

What's funny is there are plenty of guns that are cranky when squeaky clean, and a fouling shot or two seems to settle them down....so yeah, some guns run better when they aren't perfectly clean.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but can you give me an example?

Regardless, I have proof, in the evidence of watching many guns that are cleaned and reassemble NOT go bang, that clean guns aren't always the best way to go. Even people that have lots of experience, and know their guns perfectly, make mistakes and put something back improperly. Then then have a clean, non-functional gun, that they THINK is 100% reliable

On the other hand, I don't recall the last time I saw someone shooting a gun during a match, or qualifications, draw it later on only to find that there is something wrong to the point that the gun won't function at all. That's proof, and something you can observe...and most of us have experienced it. Some folks either don't want to accept it, or can't understand it.

Although there is certainly a relationship, perhaps its more of a disassembly/assembly issue instead of a clean/not clean issue?

I don't have much experience with other platforms besides S_I. I clean the pistol and put it back together. Then I rack the slide back and make sure the hammer doesn't follow. After that, I check and make sure both the grip and thumb safeties are working correctly followed by thumbing the hammer slowly through its travel and making sure it not rubbing/catching on anything. Other than that, I don't know much else that could keep the gun from functioning correctly from the first shot. The firing pin hole and bbl chamber are clean. No carbon/powder buildup on the feedramp or extractor. Nothing in the rails to possibly slow things down (besides a nice fresh application of oil.)

[scirocco38s]

I will chime in here and say that a clean gun is a happy gun. In the world of limited and open guns where we are running things on the edge with light springs and overloaded mags, it doesnt take much to make one become iffy. I clean the topend of my gun after every session without fail, thats where 90% of the dirt and grime will be anyway. I will clean the bottom every 3rd or 4th time I clean the upper,so in effect the gun gets completely clean every2k minimumand every 500 round for the top. I only shoot jacket bullets so I dont worry about the bore, if it starts shooting a big spread then I will look and evealuate.

I will say that factory guns with larger value springs 16-19lbs or more are more likely to run when exceessively dirty with fewer issues. I have seen many guns that didnt run or started having issues, get taken down and cleaned and then they were perfectly reliable again.

All this being said I will side ithe EBG3 on this and say the cleaner the gun the better it runs. If yours works for you and it is not requiring the cleaning then you have a benefit that others dont. Most open guns though seem to be especially sensitive to being clean.