hearing steel hits?

[jmurch]

I shot my first Tuesday night steel last night. I had fun and did well accuracy wise but had a hard time telling if I hit or missed some targets. I didn't want to assume I'd missed just because I didn't hear the hit and I was correct in doing so as most of them were hits.

The question is what can I do to enhance hearing the hits before I move on?

I was using regular ear muffs. Should I try something like Dillon electronic muffs? Are they fast enough/accurate enough to muffle the report from the shot but let me clearly hear the hit on the steel?

TIA, Jeff

[Calmwater]

I can't say that I don't do the same thing, but you really aren't suppose to wait and listen for your hits before you move on. Calling your shots from the sights is where its at. There are a lot of people that are trying to break the habit of listening for the hit before they move on, so you are probably better off the way you are.......

[z40acp]

Yes, with good ones that don't shut off most off the time you can hear it hit.

[Pat Miles]

I would suggest that you keep using the muffs you have. In fact you should double plug! Why? You are going to teach yourself how to actually shoot slower by waiting to hear your hits on steel. Bang...wait...wait...ding. Okay where's the next steel? Nice and sloooow. That's what you are training yourself to do. You HAVE to learn to call your shots. You line up your sights, press the trigger then move to the next piece of steel with your eyes.

Watch the good shooters at the next steel match. Ask them about hearing the steel getting hit and then moving on. The good shooters are going to tell what you are going to hear here. You want to get faster on steel, how are you going to learn how to shoot faster by teaching yourself bad habits. Learn the correct way first!

CYa,

Pat

[The Antichrome]

In Steel Challenge matches there is usually a pretty clear separation between:

1. The shooters who listen for the hits.

2. The shooters who see the hits.

3. The shooters who call their shots (and are already shooting the next target while others would be waiting)

Yeah, I've used the crutch of hearing the hits too...but I strive not to.

Calling the shot pays big rewards.

[Sarge]

Should be able to see the steel shake? I guess it depends on how it is hung.

But this also leads to one of my pet peeves about steel shooting. Paint the friggin' plates!! At the local USPSA match the steel is pretty much painted after every shooter. But the local steel match will run every shooter and never paint. After 60+ shooters the plates are gray.

[Sam]

my eye sight works at the speed of light, my hearing at half the speed of sound. I prefer to see the sights lift and move on, rather than loitering.

There is a really great still picture in Brian's book. It shows a bullet on the way to a steel plate, but Brian as already got the gun sights pointed at a different target.

Yes, I hear the hits on steel. But, they are simply echoes of the past. Shooting takes place in the present.

[jmurch]

Well that was a question worth asking early on! Since I didn't rely on hearing the hits in my first go at steel I'll just carry on with what I'm doing and not worry about it. No use establishing a bad habit.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

[GrumpyOne]

We use steel that falls when you hit it, so.....But you really should call your shots.

[George]

If you are using the sound of the steel to tell you that you have a hit then you ain't using the sights properly. You should be able to see AND call the hit yourself way before you hear anything or see anything start to fall. JMHO, read Brians book if you want more on how this should work. Where the sights are at the time the gun goes pop is where your shot is going to hit, you need to "see" this as it is happening not wait for something else to tell you the story.

[Neomet]

While it may actually feel slower to call your shots than to rip 'em off and listen for the ring or see the steel move it actually isn't, at least after a bit of practice. You will still get a mike every so often as it takes time and practice to be able to call your shots consistently. Its part of the learning curve and won't happen overnight. Be patient and keep with it.

I used to entertain my buddies regularly when I started with my "gophering" as I would shoot, pop my head up a bit over the sights to take a peek and then back down for the next shot. Of course I never felt myself doing it so the first time I saw myself shooting on video I had quite the little awakening.

[TMC]

In the Steel Challenge calling your shots alone won't do it, if you call it and you still miss and don't go back and pick it up your sunk.

For me its a bit of visual and sound, as I'm moving across the plate and breaking the shot if I'm not calling a good hit I'll listen for the sound while still moving to the next plate. If I don't hear the ring I'll move back.

[Two Delta]

I agree that you have to call your shots, steel is a speed game. Sometimes my eyes get way out in front of me and I'm getting a sight picture but by the time I squeeze the trigger my eyes have moved on and that's when I notice that I'm subconsciously listening also.

[jar]

Yes, I hear the hits on steel. But, they are simply echoes of the past. Shooting takes place in the present.

Well put. Definite sig line material.

[Flexmoney]

I shot my first Tuesday night steel last night. I had fun and did well accuracy wise but had a hard time telling if I hit or missed some targets. I didn't want to assume I'd missed just because I didn't hear the hit and I was correct in doing so as most of them were hits.

The question is what can I do to enhance hearing the hits before I move on?

I was using regular ear muffs. Should I try something like Dillon electronic muffs? Are they fast enough/accurate enough to muffle the report from the shot but let me clearly hear the hit on the steel?

TIA, Jeff

Listening for hits is the road to suck-a-tude.

Better to insert some 33db plugs as far in your ears and you can safely do so, then put on a great pair of hearing muffs too.

If you want to know about your hits...read the sights as they lift in recoil.

[Flexmoney]

In the Steel Challenge calling your shots alone won't do it, if you call it and you still miss and don't go back and pick it up your sunk.

For me its a bit of visual and sound, as I'm moving across the plate and breaking the shot if I'm not calling a good hit I'll listen for the sound while still moving to the next plate. If I don't hear the ring I'll move back.

I agree that you have to call your shots, steel is a speed game. Sometimes my eyes get way out in front of me and I'm getting a sight picture but by the time I squeeze the trigger my eyes have moved on and that's when I notice that I'm subconsciously listening also.

Neither of the above is properly calling the shot. Work on it.

It HAS to be the priority to improve.

[TMC]

In the Steel Challenge calling your shots alone won't do it, if you call it and you still miss and don't go back and pick it up your sunk.

For me its a bit of visual and sound, as I'm moving across the plate and breaking the shot if I'm not calling a good hit I'll listen for the sound while still moving to the next plate. If I don't hear the ring I'll move back

Neither of the above is properly calling the shot. Work on it.

Will do.

I shouldn't have commented, last time I shot the Challenge in Piru in 2007 it was about 110 seconds with the open gun and about 83 with the open 22 IIRC. I'll leave the advice to the fast guys from now on.

[Flexmoney]

In the Steel Challenge calling your shots alone won't do it, if you call it and you still miss and don't go back and pick it up your sunk.

For me its a bit of visual and sound, as I'm moving across the plate and breaking the shot if I'm not calling a good hit I'll listen for the sound while still moving to the next plate. If I don't hear the ring I'll move back

Neither of the above is properly calling the shot. Work on it.

Will do.

I shouldn't have commented, last time I shot the Challenge in Piru in 2007 it was about 110 seconds with the open gun and about 83 with the open 22 IIRC. I'll leave the advice to the fast guys from now on.

I thought you could be a stud and still need to work on shot calling. Especially if you called a hit and it was a miss. That is a sure sign my shot calling is off. I know it's a constant battle for me. Maybe I shouldn't have commented either.

[3quartertime]

At first glance I was gonna remove one of the above posts. Then I decided it would be way more fun to catch the Flexbot in a sort of double!!!

[George Post]

There once was a couple shooting steel challenge at my club. They were regulars but I didn't know them. One month, we were squadded together and I was running the timer. It turns out the wife was very hard of hearing. Sometimes you had to tap her shoulder to let her know when to start.

But she was very dependent on hearing the steel ring to know when to move on to the next target. Sometimes she would stop and ask if she hit the plate.

So after her third stage of each run being 20 or more seconds, I told her just to shoot, not listen for the hits and move to the next plate. By the end of that stage she had a couple runs in the 5 or 6 second range. She had cut her time down to one forth of her previous average. It was remarkable.

She was so excited, she ran over to her husband and told him by not listening to her hits on steel she went much faster. He called her something bad and me a jerk and not to take advice from anyone.

I didn't RO her after that but she went back to listening for her hits and she was even slower then before. It was very sad.

George

[THM7]

I shoot Tue Nite steel at Rio and yes you should call your shots..etc...etc.....But when you are just starting out more sensory input the better. Also if you are shooting at night under those lights you need all the help you can get....Get a good set of electronic ear muffs...they will help and make the whole thing more enjoyable.

[kitestir]

I find myself moving onto the next target while listening for the hit. If I miss I move back. I need to learn to call my shots better. At our last match we were shooting at a couple of plates that were on a slight up hill and I was shooting over them, but thought I was on target and kept oving back to them after moving halfway to my next target. It is hard to break bad habits once you start them ...

[armordude]

I started shooting Tue again at RIO and I was using the Dillion muffs and could hear the steel hits. It is so dark in the back of those bays after 7PM this time of year that the 2x2 plate is just a grey outline. You can watch for the splatter and see that faster than you can hear the ping. The Dillion Muffs help hear for sure.

[PONY EXPRESS]

I started shooting Tue again at RIO and I was using the Dillion muffs and could hear the steel hits. It is so dark in the back of those bays after 7PM this time of year that the 2x2 plate is just a grey outline. You can watch for the splatter and see that faster than you can hear the ping. The Dillion Muffs help hear for sure.

Waiting for the sound is like waiting to eat lunch it consumes time not food, don't waste it. Get to work, Aim, Call your shot, move on. You can always go back if you've missed.

I was lucky and got to shoot with the Army Guys at Area 2 this year. It was great! watching Mr. Travis shoot steel showed me if you aim, all the steel will be down before you realize the sound of the hits. Bang/Clang are to fast to hear. Well I'll keep trying!

Remember the fun!

John

L2680

[ong45]

In the Steel Challenge calling your shots alone won't do it, if you call it and you still miss and don't go back and pick it up your sunk.

For me its a bit of visual and sound, as I'm moving across the plate and breaking the shot if I'm not calling a good hit I'll listen for the sound while still moving to the next plate. If I don't hear the ring I'll move back.

For me there is quite a bit of faith involved when i move off a steel target before i get audible confirmation. I find myself allowing for more "followthough" on the tough stages like pendulum or outer limits vs. roundabout or smoke & hope. Allowing me to almost hear the ring before i move on.

While it's obvious that the ability to call shots faster is what seperates the top shooters from everyone else, i think what makes a bigger difference is their ability to make up shots quickly. Seems like an odd idea but i have seen this in the best ( steel challenge) shooters. The top 4 or 5 are noticeably better at this than everyone else.

Listening fo hits is certainly a losing proposition but may not tell the whole story, consider that at 35 yds it theoretically takes .10 for sound to get back to you. We typically see steel much closer than this. I think people who have a problem with calling shots may instead be wasting too much time watching steel fall without realizing it.

I don't disagreee with what's being said here, just digging a little bit. And yeah i'm not satisfied with my visual shot calling either.