Waiting Time

[Rufus The Bum]

Be honest, how long are you actually willing to wait for a custom gun? If you have a wad of cash burning a hole in your pocket, would you REALLY wait upwards of 9 months?

I've found that from the major 5 gunsmiths in the country for USPSA pistols, the wait is anywhere from 2 weeks to 9 months. One can't be THAT much better from the next.

[Liota]

I waited two months for my open gun to be ready. The only reason I waited that long was because I told Benny I would pick it up at a match. Great customer service, Benny! Thanks!

Liota

[Bucky]

EGW lately is about 6+ months on a new custom gun. It IS well worth the wait, though.

[tightloop]

This question was asked on another forum and my answer aggrivated some people, but here you go again...

I personally know 3 people who make a living as a pistolsmith, and I base my coments only on knowledge of these three and how they do their jobs.

The reason that you wait for extended periods of time is that they are only working about 3 days a week on average. They are all top quality smiths, but they don't work as hard now as when they were getting their reputations established.

IMO there is not a smith in the country that I would wait over 2 months to complete work on my gun, and that includes getting the parts together.

In the days when these guys were not yet established, I have had them turn out a complete gun in two weeks.

Sorry, but that is what it is. They tell me that the wait is to get to the top of the que, and that is true to some extent, but they should take a deposit and call you to send your gun when they are one week away from starting on it; then you should get it back in a month or two.

[Bucky]

I should point out that that is how EGW works. You get your name on a list. You are called when your name comes up and then you give the parts and turn around time is a couple weeks. The wait to get the call is 6+ months on a complete gun. Again, worth the wait IMHO.

[tightloop]

Bucky

I could live with that.

[IPSCDRL]

Well I can only relate my vast experience of having a total of ONE custom pistol built for me. It all started at the 2002 AWARE invitational match where I was fortunate enough to receive a Caspian Slide and Shuemann Ultimatch barrel in .45 caliber. Thanks Caspian!

I got a Caspian bar-stock frame and went to see my local gun god to talk about putting it together. He quoted me a fourteen month wait to have the gun built.

I was shocked! It was very fortuitous that Gene Williams of Princeton Texas happened to advertise that he was going into gun-plumbing full time after many years of doing it as a side business. I contacted him and made plans for a full custom single-stack with all of the bells and whistles. I consulted with him several more times to finalize exactly what I wanted. Once terms were agreed upon, I shipped the major components to him and he acquired the remaining parts. Within four weeks I received my first custom built handgun and I could not be more proud of it. The gun is a masterpiece and has worked flawlessly since new. Its hard to beat that.

[EricW]

It's like buying a house. The market sets the price, not vice-versa. People are waiting for their gun simply because they feel there is value in doing so. Gunsmithing is such a low-margin biz that there's damn little a gunsmith can do to cure the backlog issue. It is what it is.

Happily, you live in America and are free to buy your gun any where you want.

[kindlyoldcoach]

Ten years ago, I had a frame, slide, and a handful of parts turned into a very nice custom pistol in less than three weeks by Paul Barrette, a local, full-time 'smith who'd just been named in an American Handgunner IPSC column. He's still building part-time, and I hear his leadtimes for complete pistols run 9 months these days. A couple of local shooters have told me they find this too long by half, and are sending work elsewhere as a result, but he's apparently got enough work that he can pick & choose his commissions.

In March or April of 2002, I sent another 1911 pistol away to a different 'smith, for a simple re-barrelling. I finally saw it again in July of 2003. There were, ah, issues with the work done and the parts supplied. And I had been quoted about eight weeks.

Would I send another frame & slide to Mr. Barrette? Yes, and I'd gladly wait the year it would take, because the pistols he builds are worth the wait. Would I deal with the other guy again? Not even if he shipped me a pistol in advance.

[SiG Lady]

I'm stuck with "the Valtro Wait" (6 months or so) but I hear it's worth it. The "6 months or so" also gives me time to figure out how to PAY for the thing!!

[Merlin Orr]

I had a custom single stack built by a local TX gunsmith - I furnished a Caspian frame and an STI slide & barrel -Thanks STI & Area 4 - and told him to have at it. 14 months for the assembly and fitting and $1,850 later I received the finished product. All internals are STI - nothing fancy or unusual. I am OK with the gun but will never wait that long again. This smith does quality work but is not in the same group as others that ship in 3 or 4 months - or quicker - that are here in TX.

FWIW - I was in the Corpus Christi area and bought a single stack Springfield used. I took it to Benny Hill and asked if he could/would do the ejection port cut and cut for and install sights to allow me to go play some IDPA. He told me he would get it done in a few weeks - Kool. He called me the NEXT DAY and told me to come get it. Charged me only $65.00 for the machine work and then put on a free set of sights he had taken off one of his old guns. Perfect for my needs! And perhaps the most important thing to me - He looked me in the eye when he spoke to me - Not down the nose.

Guess who will build my next custom gun....

[ErikW]

I'm pretty sure I waited a solid six months for my Open gun from my local smith, who had previously built me two Limited guns.

If you've already got a working gun you can use, you can wait a few months.

[Andrew B]

I ordered 4 guns from Dawson, including a minigun in October 2002. They were delivered from May to September 2003. The guns from Dawson have been flawless and I would recommend him in a heartbeat. His only problem is his estimate of delivery time. I was originally told January 2003.

I ordered 2 from Brazos in June 2003. I was told late November 2003. I hope to see them before year end.

I don't like the wait. Heck, waiting for popcorn in a microwave irritates me. As someone else pointed out, there is a wait as the smith is busy. He's busy because he has a good rep based on delivering good work. Waiting for the Dawson guns lit me up, but I am very happy with the finshed product. I would actually be leary of a smith who could deliver a custom gun in 2 weeks.

[ErikW]

Well, there's the problem right there. Andrew B is ordering so many guns, Rufus and the rest of you have to wait forever.

[Rob Bagnato]

When I puchased a race gun, I interviewed a number of gunsmiths. What I found actually shocked me. Some of the gunsmiths out there don't actually build the guns. They have others do most of the work. That's great but, if I am buying your gun or reputation I want you to build it. Not a lot to ask. Moving to the point most of the better smiths out there that do the work themselves are busy. Let's face it one person 4 days or more to build a gun. Most of these gunsmiths are also shooters so they need to go to matches work tables, shoot, load and practice. Lets also mention travel time if you have lots of merchandise to sell or a display to setup you need to drive. That adds a couple of days to your travel time. Maybe they aren't in the shop as much as we'd like them to be but, if they aren't racing no way to find new things that work or don't. Most if them build guns because they like to shoot. Need to support the habit.

I personally will wait 9 months if I had to for a gun built the way I want it. The morale of the story is you get what you pay for. These aren't drop in parts being used and things need to fitted properly. If you need your blaster quickly look at the used market or buy a factory gun of the rack. Sorry for the long post. Just one mans opinion.

[TheOtherErik]

Personally I wounden't wait more than 6 months. The few smiths that I do know are usualy one man shows and spend half the time on the phone awnsering the same question. "when is my gun gonna be ready?" If most smiths had least one assistant the wait times would drastically reduced.

Another case, a local smith owed a customer a favor and whiped out a quality peice in one evening. The very next day was a majormatch that the smith was promoting.

Im pretty sure that most smiths wont work on an order start to finish. They will do a little here and a little there. They will do smaller orders (sight installs, trigger jobs, etc) between building guns or they will only work on complete guns when they are caught up on the smaller orders.

[Rufus The Bum]

In all fairness to most big gunsmiths. I suspect alot of the waiting time is spent doing just that, waiting for them to get back into the shop. I don't know how many people Bob Londgrin has working for him, but Brazos attends quite a few shows every year, at least he's out there working the crowd etc....Most operations probably don't employ more than 2 or 3 people.

Can Benny, Bob or Dave Dawson just out of curiosity, let us know how many they each employ? Also, how many of their employees strictly build guns?

[Brazos Custom]

I can't answer for other gunsmiths but I can tell you how I am setup. My wife Ingi answers the phones, screens calls, takes orders for parts and STI guns, and ships the product. This helps me tremendously and has turned into a full time job. I am the only other one here and build every gun. The wait time is determined by how many guns you have ordered over a period of time and how many you can build in that amount of time. If you take more orders than you can do then your wait time will increase. Long ago my wait time was under a month now it is close to 9 months.

Once your wait time starts to increase you can reduce it in several ways:

1) Learn to be more productive - put out more guns per month

2) Work more hours per month

3) Reduce out of the shop time - matches, etc

4) Hire in help

5) Lower your standards - reduce the quality of your work and put out more work per month

6) Raise your prices

7) Stop advertising

I have done #1 - over the last few years I built a larger shop (2400 sq ft) and brought in CNC machines to speed up some of the parts manufacturing and standardize some of the gun building operations.

There is a limit to #2 and I have reached it. I work 7 days a week unless I am at a match.

I don't want to do #3 because I enjoy the matches and talking to everyone and I am in it for the shooting.

I won't do #4 or #5 because I think that either one adversely affects the quality of the product I put out. No matter how long I train someone I don't think they will be as good as me at building guns, if they got to that point they would probably just quit and start their own business anyway.

I don't want to do #6 or #7 either. My prices are high but they are fair for the product that I produce and the amount of time and expertise that I put into it. I also do this full time and need to make a living at it. It is not a hobby that I can lose money on and I intend to be around doing it for a long time.

There is a reason that the good IPSC gunsmiths have long wait times - it is because they are doing a good job and there are not too many people who can do an IPSC gun right.

[Mistral404]

I would take exception to Bob's (Brazos)comment about his prices being high. Personally, I think they are very very competitive!

Not only have I seen his work personally, but it was a pleasure being on his squad at Area 4. I can not say enought positive things about him, he is a gentleman and was more than willing to help anyone out, especially if something needed fixing during the match. His guns are excellent. If you get a chance check out his tuned mags for the STI, not only are do they have the correct dimensions but are polished and numbers engraved on them.

I know for a fact he spent about 45 minutes with an Area 2 RO this year talking about his custom guns. The RO was interested in having a custom gun built.

The RO's comment's to me later were that Bob's prices were right in line with the custom prices in AZ.

Fortunately, I have the time to wait for a custom gun. I spent a lot of time researching the work of different smiths throughout the country. But my final decision came down to "who was the best in the state or within driving distance) where I was working at the time?" I like to personally meet who is doing the work. Had I been still working in Louisiana, I would have gone with Bob, with Briley and Dawson being a close second.

[TMC]

I waited 6 months just to get a slide from SV for a gun I built myself.

[shred]

I was up at Dawsons last night and he thought the "only working 3 days a week" bit was hilarious. He's been cranking through his backlog (which I believe was due to poor forecasting on sales' part versus him being a lazy-ass )

Dave builds every gun himself. There are a few other guys in the machine side of the shop that make parts, do prep work and so on, but he won't let anybody else build 'em (see Bob's comments above). There's also several "front office" staff that do sales and ordering and shipping and so on.

[benny hill]

I do everything in my shop. when you get orders for guns, you put it in line behind the last one. I also build ar-15's & combat shotguns. I also make several matches a year + hunting season [ now]. my backlog on a new pistol is about 12 /16 weeks. long guns 3/4 weeks. at my age I enjoy working about 50 hrs. a week & not much more. I work some nites if it gets necessary.

[uscbigdawg]

Bob,

I have to agree with Mistral. For the quality that we get, you're cheap if not very fair!!!

Looking forward to the new Limited gun!!!

Rich

[Brian Gonsalves]

I voted 2 months. I think that would be ideal, enough time to get parts and do the work and not to long to wait.

That said, I have had guns built on both sides of that time line.

Dave Wallace built my .40 S&W 1911 IDPA gun in 5 weeks

Gene Shuey completely reworked my Kimber L10 gun in 7 weeks

Both are awesome! I would have waited longer, but I'm glad I didn't have too!

Ted Yost has had my .38 Super Commander carry gun for a little longer

Gene Shuey has been working on my custom STI limited gun awhile, too

I'm sure they will both be worth the wait.

I just glad the "Boss" at home doesn't care how many guns I have built!

[D.Hayden]

I'll wait as long as the gunsmith says it'll take. For the kind of skilled hand work these take, and the number of good smith's, it takes what it takes. If the time is too long, look for a used one, if you want custom, hand built, in a one or two person shop, people can olnly work so fast and produce quality without getting burned out. If I order one, I'm hoping it'll be 6 months or less, I'd probably wait up to a year.

With Benny saying 12/16 - I'm fine with that - it's art, with a waiting list, and I'm at the end