Vince Pinto Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Hi folks, As a result of an excessive ingestion of caffeine, nicotine and Prozac, I occasionally get some weird (possibly screwball) ideas, and I'd like to bounce my latest off you (see the poll above). The proceeds of the voluntary draw fee, which would be additonal to the match fee, will go to a pre-designated charity, and there would be, say, 2 slots up for grabs. Apart from replying to the yes/no poll above, I'd welcome your opinion on the percentage of competitors at a major match you think would enter the draw. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 How about elimination of the super squad all together. Put one or two pros on each squad. Two things are immediately beneficial. One, see how much closer the 'average' M/GM will fair against the field of pros, when they cannot pace off of or mimmick stage engagement by one another. Two, as they are very good ambassadors of our sport, having them in a squad of mixed shooters, will allow for more direct contact by the 'average' shooter to see how the big boys shoot, disect a stage, prepare, etc. Just a thought. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Rich, The reason they do that is so that no one competitor in the super squad has an advantage over the other. Such as a shadow overcasts on a target making it harder to see. It rains on one stage earlier before half of the super squad shoots it. Etc. I for one would not enter the drawing...I plan on getting there in shooting merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I'm with the Bigdawg on this one. Why should they get to shoot together anyway? Let them go thru the same procedures as the rest of the shooters. If memory serves me correctly on this, it was started to help the media cover all the Hot shooters. Well, no offense Patrick and Duane, to hell with the media, the coverage suxs anyway. Let them enter the match the way the rest of the shooters do and let's see if having a D class shooter tie up the squad for 40 minutes before they go to the line, impacts the way they handle the stage... Jake, We pay out $$ and take our chances with the rain, sun, shadow, wind, etc., so should they. They might shoot better than I do, but they put their pants on the same way I do, each morning... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 No charge! I think everyone signed up should get a chance (drawing) at shooting with the big boys. Like you said 2 slots per squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 The reason they do that is so that no one competitor in the super squad has an advantage over the other. They take thier chances in Golf - weather can figure.. They don;t want to be compared to golfers do they? Sking, depending on conditions, it can get very bad, or very good Smacks of elitism. I would think squading would be done more random. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I've had the chance to shoot some section size matches with some super squaders and loved it. But I also knew my place. I wasn’t out to bug them. But I did watch and learn. For some it takes lots of concentration to perform on their level and should not be bothered. I have also heard people talk $hit about them if they didn’t help them plot out a stage. I would say keep the super squads and if you’re lucky to find a way to squad with them have at it. Just leave them alone and let them shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I like bigdawg's idea too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I think maybe I wasn't clear in my post. I was merely saying that if weather conditions cause 1 competitor to have a disadvantage against another and that competitor gains enough points on him to win a match. He didn't necessarily out-shoot him, which to my understanding is the way to win a match. I don't know if this made any more sense, but I'm trying my best here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I don't know if this made any more sense, but I'm trying my best here. I think it was very clear, I was just giving an alternative view. Like when the first golfers finish before it gets too dark or the greens slow or speed up, wind picks up.. etc. To make the shooters the only variable, they should shoot as close together as possible, but many sports (is golf a sport?) don't work that way, it's part of the game. If I was a spectator, I'd like to see them shoot one after another. Worse thing for me, would be the laughter of everyone, if I shot after one of these guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Let them make their own squad requests like anybody else. You want to learn to shoot from one of them, you pay your $300+ and take one of their classes. It's kind of B.S. anyway. The super squad should really be the top 16 from the previous match, right? Or maybe the top 8 plus previous champs. (For example, so if Barnhart showed up at the Nationals next year after failing to appear this year, they don't stick him on a squad with some second-rate Masters or something.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 What Erik said. Think about it. If a big-dawg requested to not be in the SS, would he be there? I doubt it (except maybe at Bianchi). Most of the SS guys would probably ask to be squadded together anyway. They know each other, may or may not like each other, but know they can get along and know exactly what they're getting into. For some of 'em, this is their job, let them do it uninterrupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I am no golf buff...but, aren't the leaders paired together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Golf... sorry, yes they are paired together after the first round... not sure how they get squadded before then... Either way.... at local matches we pick our own squads.. like shred said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 No, they are paired by the PGA for the first round and after that depending on the scores they shoot. While the handgun sports usually don't provide enough $$ to make a living but for just a very few, setting up a super squad and giving them perks like squad members they like, good times, etc, just set them up to become the pimps that all pro athletes have become, on down the line. I would hate to see the shooting sports become like basketball and football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 26, 2003 Author Share Posted November 26, 2003 Um guys, As much as I love you, please don't hijack my thread. The question is NOT "Should we have a Super Squad?" the question is, well, at the top of the bloody page. Now please behave yourselves or I'll send SiG Lady 'n' Shooter Grrl around to spank you, but not in a fun way. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liota Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Vince, Any opportunity to shoot with those guys would be a pleasure. However, they are there to do a job. I shoot for fun, but these guys, although they may not be making a living doing it, are compensated in some way to shoot. It's a job. Our host talked about that a bit somewhere on his pages. Anyway, I probably would not pay for a drawing to shoot with them. When I go to shoot, I go for the company in addition to the shooting. The Race Gun Nationals this year is a good example. Although the Limited Nationals was more fun shooting, I enjoyed the Open Nationals more because my friends from home were there with me on my squad. That all said, if I go back to the American Handgunner in Colorado, I will try to shoot revolver. Those guys had a blast. The competition was serious, but no one took himself all that seriously. Pretty cool. Yes, Jerry was there that year. Liota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Vince, Even for charity I can't see myself paying to shoot with the Super Squad. The reason is I would be so far out of my league (ability) that I couldn't have fun when my times are twice or more of theirs. Plus people feed off of each other by matching skill levels. Put 2 scratch golfers with 2 hackers and after 18 holes chances are that the scratch golfers will be over par. Most or all of the Super Squad have sponsers who want to be able to advertise that their product beat someone elses product. From what I could see at the 2003 Racegun Nationals they have more than enough pressure from the media and people who want to be able to say that they spoke with so n so while they are trying to prepare to shoot. It took an average of 10 minutes more to run the Super Squads (mens & ladies) than other squads of comparable size. It wasn't because they took longer on the run through or between shooters it was because of all the people following them and trying to do interviews before it was time to shoot. I think it is time to rope off the shooting area as they do in golf so when the shooters get to the stage they can prepare to shoot without being bothered by someone not on the Squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I'm looking forward to it next year. I didn't have to pay anything either, except blood, sweat and tears and a lot of hard work. And that's the way I think it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 $50 is too much. ...and I agree with bigdawg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 MM, getting in the top 16 doesn't automatically put you in the super squad. Not even if you request it. In fact, I'd say the chances are low because 2004 is a combined-division match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 i think the super squad should pay me $50 to shoot with me. the supper squad always wins. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Vince, If I bend the corner of my ballot will you pick it out of the fishbowl first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I think $50 is a little steep. OK, I think $50 is a LOT steep. $5, yes. $10, maybe. It would be fun, but not THAT fun Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hi guys, I guess what I'm driving at is an IPSC "Pro-Am" thingy, although the scores are obviously not combined. BTW, I posed the same question to competitors from three different regions in Asia, and the response was an overwhelming "Yes, that would be cool". We had two foreign GM's attend our Hong Kong Nationals last weekend, and my guys were really happy to be able to see some "Top Dawgs" shoot, which is something they normally can't do when travelling, because everybody is in a different squad. Different strokes for different folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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