warpspeed Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 It sounds like fun to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 Vince, you have 12 takers so far, at $50 per...that's $600!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I like Bigdawg's idea. However, the question is if your willing to pay 50 bucks to shoot with the SSquad in a big match. I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 I bet if you could get the Swedish Bikini Team, you can get guys to pay more than $50. They're IPSC shooters, sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Pay to shoot with the Top GM's? I shot on the same squad with Dave Sevigny at the 2002 A7. Todd at the 2002 AWARE. JJ at the 2003 A8. All won their respective Divisions. Now accepting bids from High Ranked GM's. Select spots on my squad at major matches for the 2004 season are now available by auction. Your results may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 MM, getting in the top 16 doesn't automatically put you in the super squad. Not even if you request it. In fact, I'd say the chances are low because 2004 is a combined-division match. Erik, I realize that. I happened to run into the powers that be and asked them how the SS was selected. He told me how it worked, then informed me that I would be on the Production SS next year, unless I had some compelling reason not to be. Looks like I will shoot Production again all next year, so I am looking forward to it. I really hope some of the big dawgs will shoot Production again so I can learn a few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 Matthew, I really hope some of the big dawgs will shoot Production again so I can learn a few things. And therein lies the attraction. Imagine how much the average punter would learn from being squadded with top shooters. Hell, I've learnt a whole bunch of stuff just by ROing the top shooters. I man my stage for 3 days, I see 300 people go through, and I'm convinced I know the best way to attack my stage, until the Super Squad comes along. As Monty Python would say "And now for something completely different"!! There's no guarantee you'd get a slot with my lucky draw plan but, if you did, it's gotta be the cheapest "actually shooting stages" series of lessons available anywhere in the world. I could be wrong, but my gut feel is that we'd get +100 takers at a World Shoot, and raising $5,000 for charity is not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Vince I think you are over estimating people's ability to remain detached while in the company of the SS. I feel like most shooters would be really intimidated, overwhelmed, etc and not be able to gleen anything much from shooting with those guys. Unless the guest is a very accomplished shooter with shooting credentials of his own, they would probably be so distracted, self conscious, etc, that they would shoot one of the worst matches of their lives. In stead paying 50 bucks to shoot in a match, how about getting those guys to offer a one day class to the lucky person who has their name drawn. I would pay 50 bucks for a chance to take a one day class from Robbie, but shooting with them, No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Vince Pinto Posted on Nov 28 2003, 09:58 PM Matthew, QUOTE I really hope some of the big dawgs will shoot Production again so I can learn a few things. And therein lies the attraction. Imagine how much the average punter would learn from being squadded with top shooters. And imagine how many shooters would learn if everyone, including the super squad shot by random drawing... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Done it twice. Watched & learned. Loved it. Don't assume there's intimidation, because I've never seen it. They're all just normal but motivated people, who have made a choice about how many hours a year (many) that they will spend shooting. Most of us can't make that choice & believe me, they respect that. There's no such thing as a "pro" who makes a living off endorsements. Nike pays out that kind of money. Callaway Golf pays it. No one in our sport does. Prize money supports one guy in all of shooting - Doug Koenig. He earns it. Any of the guys you see who's job is to shoot, they teach classes that separate them from their family for 100+ days a year. Or they serve in the Army, God bless them. Several are shooting too much to call it fun. They call it work. My $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I do like to sneak over and watch them on occasion. If I want to learn from them, I can pay for lessons away from the match. So, no Vince, I would not pay anything extra for a better chance to shoot with the SS. But, like P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute". Go ahead and have the raffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I'd like to, but I wouldn't be willing to pay $50 for it. Maybe $5. Personally, I tend to shoot better when I'm shooting with people significantly better than me. Maybe it's a, "if he can do it, I can do it," type of confidence booster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 The competitors who are usually squaded together as the "Super Squad" should send their requests in like everyone else. An earlier post mentioned that the Super Squad should shoot together so that they could all shoot under the same conditions (shadows, sun, rain, etc.). Why? Persons competing for Top A, B, C, and D class are not given the luxury of having the match conditions catered solely to their needs. As someone posted elsewhere, USPSA is an amateur supported sport which exists to support the professionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 An earlier post mentioned that the Super Squad should shoot together so that they could all shoot under the same conditions (shadows, sun, rain, etc.). Why? Persons competing for Top A, B, C, and D class are not given the luxury of having the match conditions catered solely to their needs. What the poster meant is that the top contenders should all face the same conditions. If you're Rob and shooting on a beautiful day, you wouldn't want Phil and Taran shooting the same stage on a crappy, rainy day would you? ...mmmm...ok, maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I would pay because it would give me a distinct advantage. I have followed or shot with the big dogs and it gives you a pace and a stragedy indicator that is an advantage at higher shooting levels. Honestly at Low A or below its not as helpful. Shaving .20 seconds off of an array, doesn't matter if you are exiting the boxes .50 slower than your competition. Good solid shooting skills wins B and below. I think the pace indicator helps a lot. Their times are usually very close so they are looking for every edge. Me too. When I shoot with equal or better shooters I shoot better, usually. I think they would all squad together anyways by request. Now I agree with Roy's statment that they need to be treated the same as everybody. I think they effectively are. Its just done by Val instead of someone else. A couple Nationals ago I watched a C or D class shooter with the Super Squad. He was failing like a champ. Probably intimidation and lack of experience. He was trying and shaking even on the last day. That's probably going to happen with a lot of people. Of course I have seen it happen with any squad and shooter level. Where do I send the check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 $50 for a chance is too pricey for me. $50 to actually shoot with them I would do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Is there any way I could pay $50 NOT to shoot with the Super Squad! With the new Handgun Nationals format , I'm not sure how the "Super Squad" thing is going to work out. There may be top Open, Limited, L10, Prod, and Jerry shooters all together on the same squad. Even so, I'm not sure I would want to shoot on a squad with many people I wouldn't know. In 98,99,2000, I had a great time with the friends I travelled there with. I dreaded having to be on the super squad in 2001....not because of the added pressure, but because I didn't know any of those guys. If I hadn't have been winning after the 1st day of the 2001 Limited Nats, they may not have given me the time of day. Don't get me wrong, they're all great guys for the most part....but I found myself tracking down my friends to see how they were doing at every opportunity. Now that I've been on the squad a few times, I've grown close to some of those guys and it's refreshing to shoot with them once a year. I hope that USPSA makes LOTS of money next year so we can have a normal National season in 2005, so I can shoot with them twice a year! Phil Strader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmercury2 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I will pay $50 to shoot with the HOOTERS girl squad,but not the super squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHall Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I'm with redmercury2 on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Bill, I have to disagree with you on this one. I've shot a couple of area matches and as a B Class Limited shooter, I can tell you that it made one heck of a difference in the fact that other B Class shooters shot on a warm, sunny day, and the next day I shot on a windy, rainy, cold day, with dry cleaning bags covering the targets. Most of us that day got our butts kicked by the guys who shot the day before. We didn't complain as that's the nature of the game. You've got to be able to shoot in any conditions. My point is that this situation should apply to ALL competitors and that we not cater to the Pro-Shooters with special priviledges in regards to conditions. If Robbie shoots in the sun and Todd shoots in the rain, so be it. Though again, as USPSA is an amateur sport that caters to the pro's, we won't see a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hey Roy I thought we agreed on everything? I understand your point all so well. I shot OH state on Sun one year and it was so bad that my 10 person squad was 3 by the end of the match. The rest quit and went home! Sat was 78 degrees and sunny. I was trying to show how the super squad gets an advantage over other higher level shooters in stragedy and pacing. The trouble with the regular guys is there are a lot more of them and no way can they all shoot on the same day. It would be great if they could. I also know that things are all relative in every class. That's why we have classes so you are competing against people of your skill level. I think it is very difficult challenge to shoot the bags in the dark rain when your class competition shot in the balmy sunshine on another day. I don't know a solution to that. I, like you, just treat it as part of the game. Sometimes you are in the sun and they aren't. PS Phil, you are always welcome on my squad. Won't cost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hi guys, OK, I'm gonna be mean Uncle Vinny now but, as the cliche goes "You can't have your cake and eat it too". With most, if not all, major IPSC matches (but definitely Level IV and Level V matches), everybody shoots every day. Sure, if it rains today, my squad might be shooting Stages 1 to 7 and your squad might be shooting Stages 8 to 14 but, since each group of stages has an equal balance of long, medium & short courses, we all shoot a similar mix of stages in the rain. Ditto for tomorrow when it's blistering hot with high humidity. The only way this system comes "unstuck" is the practice which I understand is common in the US of having, say, a 4 day match but where everybody wants to get done shooting in 1 or 2 days. In such cases, there's a good chance that my two days (Monday, Tuesday) are sunny for all my stages, while your two days (Wednesday, Thursday) are wet and miserable. This is the chance you take with "reduced day shooting". Of course I understand the "time off work" and "away from family" issues, but you can't have it both ways. In any case, the primary contenders for the match titles are the Super Squads, and that's one reason why the top contenders are usually squadded together. Hence, regardless of whether they shoot a 4 day match in 1 day or 4 days, they shoot the same stages in essentially the same conditions, so that no front runner has an edge over another. Of course if you start splitting up the Top 20 contenders over 10 squads, then it's possible the climatic conditions will have a much bigger influence on the outcome of the match, and that's something we want to avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Vince, It might also have something to do with the lack of vacation time in the U.S. vs. Europe.... It's not uncommon for a ten-year employee here to have only three weeks of vacation time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted December 30, 2003 Share Posted December 30, 2003 Vince,It might also have something to do with the lack of vacation time in the U.S. vs. Europe.... It's not uncommon for a ten-year employee here to have only three weeks of vacation time.... Or less, much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 I'd probably pay to allow the super squad to shoot with ME But you know what I've found? If you ask to shoot with the S/S, the MD's will usually accomidate you, I've asked TGO and TJ if I could shoot with them and they were very friendly. As long as you don't use the opportunity to pester them constantly about their gear, load etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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