Flexmoney Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 racerba, Thanks for the reply. Can I go against my other fellow SOs recommendations? Should I try to find the MD and insist on something done? It is my stage after all, and I have already decided that the rule book is king from now on, but how to convince the rest? Easy. Ask if they's rather keep this guy around...who can't seem to be in compliance with the rules very often...or if they's rather lose the shooters (and SO's) that do follow the rules. I wouldn't say it as an ultimatum or threat, but they really need to think it through and see the real consequences. (you will probably see the light bulb go on for them...if you say it right) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 . Let me explain, glock 35, with huge alum magwell. previous SOs have brought that to his attention but it has stayed on. but then I noticed his barrel was ported also and there was no muzzle rise. What is my place as an SO of a stage, and how far do you go to keep the peace? At recent sanctioned IDPA matches, they have been giving a match DQ for equipment that doesn't fit any division. This gun doesn't fit. At the next match I would have my stage be a "start with the gun in the IDPA box" stage. When the gun doesn't fit just give the guy his match DQ. If the MD doesn't back you up then I would stop being a SO at that club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks Duane for your wisdom, I agree with NX and the rest of gents, I plan to contact the MD today and run these suggestions by him. Not sure what he will do , BUT at the next match I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Yer welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tact is overrated if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemoe83 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 In one of my local USPSA shoots the guy running the matches always loads up his Glock to 17+1 in production, nobody says anything but we like to count rounds while he shoots, sort of amusing, nobody really cares because he never does very well. But you'd think the match director would lead by example and follow the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 We occasionally have a few guys who want trigger time with their open guns. Sometimes we just don't do their scores. Other times they get put in a separate "division" like "Tom's Cheatin' Open Scoped Gun" at the bottom of this match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Perhaps a double standard, but the shooter on a shoestring whose only centerfire handgun is a 6" .38 revolver is welcome on my range, but the guy who owns more guns than the next three of us combined got hounded into leaving his ported barrel at home. I don't think an outlaw or game gun fake division is a good idea, it will just encourage people to show up with non-compliant guns and gear. If they want trigger time, all they get is range commands, their scores will not be posted where they can use them for bragging purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Is it that hard to show the rules that this guy is breaking to him in person before the match starts and give him the choice to either change equipment to become compliant or shoot the match for no score or in Outlaw division? Alternately you can bring a list of the other matches taking place along the front range where his equipment would be legal to shoot. It says that you are in the Rocky Mountains so I assume that you are in Colorado. There is a TON of shooting activities available to attend along the front range of Colorado each month. 1 IDPA match, 10 USPSA matches, 6 Steel matches, 1 Bianchi match, and probably 5+ home grown IDPA/USPSA/Steel style matches that are not affiliated with a sanctioning body. That is a boat load of matches available to attend and there is no reason why this guy can’t find a shooting activity that suits his equipment. I wouldn’t say turn the guy away from shooting the IDPA match if he wants to shoot. But if he does want to shoot make it clear that he has the choice of complying with the rules to shoot for score in one of the divisions, or to not comply with the rules and shoot in Outlaw division or simply not given a score. It’s as simple as that. I don’t know why that would be so hard to convey to the shooter in question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 wow, you have alot of activity on the front range...................we are trying to get things going here on the western slope:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I don't understand what the issue is. Your job as an SO is to insure the safety of the competitors and record the performance and infractions. You're not doing anything but the paperwork. If the gun isn't legal, it isn't legal. There are plenty of guys that showed up with legal gear and their results shouldn't be effected by someone operating outside the rules. Record the penalties that the shooter incurs. If they have an issue, let the MD make a final ruling. Your job is administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Tact is overrated if you ask me. Intentional, perpetual rule breakers are no fun to be around. For you, or for other decent club members who actually have sportsmanship in their veins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prreed10 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 He would have gotten an FTDR for illegal equipment due to th 12 round mag at my club. I agree with what was said before. If it's the only gun he has, I'd be fine with it. Sounds like he is using it as an excuse to get an advantage. I would be pissed if I followed all the rules and got beat by someone who didn't. I don't know many people who have a tricked out G35 as their only gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Intentional, perpetual rule breakers are no fun to be around. For you, or for other decent club members who actually have sportsmanship in their veins. Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. If the guy's cheat, call him on it and don't worry about his feelings. It will be a good example for everyone else. As it is, the example being set is that it's ok to cheat and the SO won't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I would not worry about tact. He is disrespecting you, the other shooters, the club, the range, and IDPA so I am not sure any amount of tact will get the point across. The shooter doesn't seem to want to shoot as a member of the club or IDPA so there is no worry whether he is gone forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 Update, We held a match today, great weather and even greater shooters. The shooter in question made a point to come up to me and show me that his gun was legal(barrel had been replaced) since he did not want to have to argue about it. I told him that if he had any questions to discuss them with the MD, but he was pleasant enough and wanted to play. He definitely was not as fast as the previous match, had a few misses and on my stage had a hit on a non-threat. He was quite disappointed. I encouraged him, told him to flow with the next stage and I thanked him for coming out to participate. we are after all growing a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Excellent. Probably the best possible solution - shooter "figures it out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 We occasionally have a few guys who want trigger time with their open guns. Sometimes we just don't do their scores. Other times they get put in a separate "division" like "Tom's Cheatin' Open Scoped Gun" at the bottom of this match. That's cool.....just goes to show you it's the Indian and not the bow. ESP Master beats a guy with an open gun by a second. DaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pittbug Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Sounds like a good outcome, great to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotshot101 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 always nice to have a happy ending to a situation..........so how did you do???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 I am not trying to bash IDPA but this is the primary reason I will not shoot IDPA at our local club. They have different rules for different people. It is unfair to all the other competitors if you allow one or two to break the rules for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) "I am not trying to bash IDPA but this is the primary reason I will not shoot IDPA at our local club. They have different rules for different people. It is unfair to all the other competitors if you allow one or two to break the rules for any reason. " Not sure I agree with your statement. This as far as a young club tryng to take off was a good ending........In any sport we have people attempting to win at any cost. Most shooters are there to play the game and have some fun. Making this particular gentleman aware that we know he is sinning and allowing him to correct his behavior succeeded. We kept a member, and worked out the problem. At our morning hudle we all agreed to look a little closer and to this shooter in particular. We had planned to place him in his own class, except he decided he wants to shoot and be counted. Overall, IDPA tries to offer a game, without making the rules overly complex. But like any game you have to learn HOW to play. It should not be biased, try it you will like it. Edited November 9, 2009 by fastarget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 always nice to have a happy ending to a situation..........so how did you do???? Not sure yet, the results are not out, I could have done better at one stage, but overall it felt good , and a great time was had. Keep in mind, that morning I set up the classification course, and my own stage. SOs have to rush and shoot other stages when they get the chance. In many cases that does not give you a chance to watch and digetst a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-Bear Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I would let him shoot but no score him in the results. Also I would tell him this up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Christian Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I thought Jane's idea was great! Let him shoot (the club can use the money) but score him seperately in the "Cheater Division". Peer pressure will often win out. And, at a Sanctioned Match he won't make it past the first stage anyway. That's a tactful solution. Chris Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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