Speedy-B Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hi, I have been shooting local handgun competitions for the past year and the rules seem to be changing on the fly. The shoot was set up to take the best of IDPA and USPSA and create a low-stress competition without excessive rules. 4 stages, 12 rounds per stage (no max), shoot what you bring (no classes - no capacity restrictions), run the course how you want as long as you preform 1 reload. Simple enough. Now the problem. A group of senior shooters (Senior in membership years as well as actual) have decided to make a couple of arbitrary changes. First, that steel plates should not be used in the setup due to there lack of real world simulation. I think their absence from the shoots have reduced the "fun factor" but I can live with that one. The second and more frustrating change came last match when the seventy-three year old belted out to 58 shooters that there would be no running during the stages in order to reduce the liability factor. What someone here can do for me is either dispel this "unsafe running"notion with some facts/logic or back it up so i can get over it. I have seen plenty of matches and none of them had shooters moving through the stage like Olympic speed walkers. Anyway, i feel that the old guys are trying to level the playing field - the problem is that self improvement is really limited for advanced shooters due to the drastic changes on moving/timing/setup/etc. I have won the last 10 matches in a row so lowering my times and working on form is what i really look forward to. Speed walking with clinched butt cheeks is not my idea of great form practice. Your thoughts please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Find somewhere else to shoot or gather enough support in your club for change. Pick a shooting sport IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge and affiliate your club with them and shoot it. Pretty simple when you get down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy-B Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 Find somewhere else to shoot or gather enough support in your club for change. Pick a shooting sport IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge and affiliate your club with them and shoot it. Pretty simple when you get down to it. The real question i have: is this no running thing logical? Have you seen running during a handgun competition restricted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 +1 on finding an actual shooting sport, complete with rules and bylaws. You can always tell them that the only way to make it realistic is to use Simunitions guns and do actual force on force matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Easy... stop shooting there. Vote with your dollars/support and stop coming around. When they have found that they have ran off all the guys that will pay and help set up, tape, run the match, they will realize their mistake. Find a somewhat local USPSA/IDPA club and support them, or try and start one at your own club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I have fallen twice now since 02 when I started. Once in the mud kept the gun down range got up and kept shooting, second time an activator rope got wrapped around my ankle when I took off running for the next position. The SO was yelling stop as I was falling-crashing into the side berm again the gun was kept safe down range. I've shot with many many older shooters who just don't get around that well anymore, they shoot stages at a pace they are comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Find somewhere else to shoot or gather enough support in your club for change. Pick a shooting sport IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge and affiliate your club with them and shoot it. Pretty simple when you get down to it. The real question i have: is this no running thing logical? Have you seen running during a handgun competition restricted? No, it absolutely positively is not. It sounds like exactly how you explained it, a bunch of old guys trying to "level the playing field" by putting illogical restrictions on an otherwise safe action. Sounds to me that they should stick to bullseye and trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 dont waste time with a match like that , nothing worse than playing a game with a bunch of people that keep changeing the rules as they go to suit them, Run sanctioned matches and follow sanctioned rulesor make up a sport and have a published set of rules and stick too them with no changes allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Find somewhere else to shoot or gather enough support in your club for change. Pick a shooting sport IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge and affiliate your club with them and shoot it. Pretty simple when you get down to it. The real question i have: is this no running thing logical? Have you seen running during a handgun competition restricted? No, it absolutely positively is not. It sounds like exactly how you explained it, a bunch of old guys trying to "level the playing field" by putting illogical restrictions on an otherwise safe action. Sounds to me that they should stick to bullseye and trap. Bullseye and trap. Now that's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I can't imagine the game without some hustle. But then again I can't see trying to blend USPSA and IDPA. We had an IDPA shooter at the last match. It was comical(from the perspective of our sport)to watch them reload and keep peeking around walls before shooting. Something like this might work for a bunch of guys wanting to shoot for fun and making up some informal rules but it is a failed concept for anything other than that. I agree that the older club members are feeling a bit outgunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Pfft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 lol.. next you'll be penalized for walking too fast, or for walking without a walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy-B Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 lol.. next you'll be penalized for walking too fast, or for walking without a walker. Thanks guys - i want to keep shooting there for convenience sake but will take your assurance of "common practice" to a vote and get rule overturned. I plan to do some USPSA matches this year and look forward to that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I see people falling down more often when they are just walking. (Plus, they are easier to push. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy-B Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I see people falling down more often when they are just walking. (Plus, they are easier to push. ) I agree with that. You are more likely to stumble while shuffling your feet in an attempt to walk fast than you are with a natural pace - good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spray_N_Prey Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) yeah I know your frustration. I helped run a local match last year and it seemed that there was always someone wanting to "change" the rules to accomodate them. Sounds like the old farts are trying to gain an advantage. No use in trying to work with them either, it won't do you any good. Edited July 28, 2009 by Spray_N_Prey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) If he's 73, you can probably just wait him out. My apologies to our local crew of "Cool" Super Seniors. Seriously, this is total BS - is the old guy the MD or just a self-important asshat? Edited July 28, 2009 by Fullauto_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Personally my answer would be to NOT shoot that particular match. I would prefer to shoot a discipline with set rules governed by bodies such as USPSA or IDPA, Steel Challenge, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 How do they score it? Time plus? Hit factor? What is the penalty for running? It might be worth it to run anyway. You could be one of those 'gamer' people. What type of targets do they use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 That's like playing poker with wild cards. Waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I shot one local "fun" match at a club where they had a no running rule, but it was strictly a liability issue - "no running with a gun in your hand, loaded or not, under any circumstances, while doing anything, period". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I used to go to a match loosely based on USPSA rules. It was at an indoor range. It was pts/time scoring. Everyone moved L to R down the line. They had a variety of targets with some no shoots etc. and a barricade or two. Even a port (bucket mounted sideways) to shoot through. But it was all in a line left to right. The rule was you had to be directly in front of the target before you could shoot at it. It was a brand new range with actual bullet traps. One big trap per lane. He obviously invested a lot of money (as oppsed to a pile of shredded tires or dirt at the back wall as I've seen at other indoor ranges) so I could understand his concern about shooting into the traps at an angle. I think it was unfounded but hey, it was his range and his rules. The key part of the above paragraph is "used to go". After enough real run n gun at USPSA matches this one was more "meh". I guess my point is, no matter what the rules are, do you have fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Stop going, start your own club and get sanctioned by whatever organization you want. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 It sounds like they want to put on an "all classifier" match. No running, just gunning. Let them. And let them also set up their matches without the help of the "younger" shooters who prefer to spend their match fees on something elsewhere with a little variety. I give them three months before they fold or change their minds. Get sanctioned and go with those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I agree that if you don't like it don't go. I am always amazed that when people can't win they blame safety, its not tactical, the arms race or planet alignment for it and make their own game. Instead of getting better and winning. That said in my youth I really enjoyed going to a local "Tactical" match with another M. I would borrow his Glock and we would take 1-2 every time. It gave the MD Fits so he started allowing reshoots to try to better his scores. Remember this is very tactical event cause you always get two or three tries in a real life shootout. We continued to win and never reshot. It used to be great fun pulling out and seeing them lined up to make another run. Glad I'm not such a competitive person now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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