1911 "full" house build question

[-JQ-]

If I was to do a full build or almost full build...

What frame/brand should I start with?

Should I submit my STI Trojan? Or shop for a Colt, etc? Or just buy naked frame, etc?

For clarification...I will not be doing build myself but will have someone else do it...my skills are of the computer type - not necessarily the smithing type.

Thanks gang!

[al503]

I just got one SS and another coming in a week or so and both smiths used Caspian frames. One smith was equally willing to use Caspian or an SV frame.

[gino_aki]

If I was to do a full build or almost full build...

What frame/brand should I start with?

Should I submit my STI Trojan? Or shop for a Colt, etc? Or just buy naked frame, etc?

For clarification...I will not be doing build myself but will have someone else do it...my skills are of the computer type - not necessarily the smithing type.

Thanks gang!

I would say it depends upon what "type" of full house build you're going to do...i.e. tactical, carry, single stack division, steel, L-10, etc. Each of those different types might require a different set of components to fulfill your requirements.

[-JQ-]

I would say it depends upon what "type" of full house build you're going to do...i.e. tactical, carry, single stack division, steel, L-10, etc. Each of those different types might require a different set of components to fulfill your requirements.

Good point...This would be a USPSA/IDPA-type for SS but pretty too. This wouldn't be a carry piece.

And this should go without saying...45 caliber

My Trojan has had some work done by Dave Dawson and I really like it but the finish sux...this is what got me thinking maybe I could send it to get some work (finish/sites) and be farther down the road than a frame up build. One thing I dislike strongly is the name "Trojan" and the way too big horse head on the side...imho.

I guess this isn't really full house job...I can't justify 3-4K on it...

I think I'm confusing myself

[itchy]

I see this phrase all the time, and have been wondering, what it means...

"Full house" race gun OR

"Full house" loads

(Waiting for PB to send me to "let me google that for you".)

Seiichi

[gino_aki]

I guess this isn't really full house job...I can't justify 3-4K on it...

I think I'm confusing myself

Seriously, your Trojan has most of what would go into an SS division full house build already, the only things I can see it needing from the description on the STI site is a magwell. It seems you want to change out to fiber optic sights and refinishing, although there isn't going to be much you can do about the logo. Those changes would run you maybe $600 tops.

[ChuckS]

Joel,

You don't like the "Trojan" name? Perhaps they sould of called it "Sheik" or something else

In any case, what do you want to do? Pimp your current gun or get another? If you want a new gun, find a gunsmith you trust and ask them how much for a custom build. If you buy a complete gun for the project you will be buying some parts you probably don't want. Find out the labor and then get out that Brownells 1911 catalog (or equivalent) and figure out how much it will cost! If that is too much, then buy off the rack.

Good Luck,

Chuck

[gino_aki]

I see this phrase all the time, and have been wondering, what it means...

"Full house" race gun OR

"Full house" loads

(Waiting for PB to send me to "let me google that for you".)

Seiichi

A full house gun in our sport generally means one that has been completely modified with custom/aftermarket parts, typically retaining only the frame and slide from an original gun or having been started with a new frame and slide.

Full house loads usually refer to maximum loads in any cartridge caliber, or even loads that go beyond SAAMI specifications by handloaders through experimentation.

[shooterbenedetto]

Custom build it..there's nothing like a custom gun.

STI 2011 has many aftermarket parts.

[steel1212]

Pm sent.....

[Jaxshooter]

The Trojan frame is cast. STI also makes a forged frame for a 1911. If I was going to buy a frame I would spend a little more for the forged frame. There is not that much difference. A Les Baer or Wilson frame in addition to the STI would be a good starting point for your build.

[North]

I'm considering just getting a Les Baer 1911 premier II adding a S&A magwell and maybe a Fiber front sight and call it a day.

I don't know though, that concept III is pretty.

Edited March 20, 2009 by North

[EEH]

North--

has a great idea--the Baer guns are some of the best and shoot like it was meant to out of the box and I do mean box--just my .02 good luck whatever you do

[Rln_21]

STI makes good slides and frames although if I were building another gun right now I would probably take a good look at Fusion Firearms frames and slides (quality products from what we have seen and good prices as well).

I would actually probably mix a Fusion forged frame with an STI slide just for kicks...

I've still got to finish my Springfield full build though, too much fitting and not enough time

[Joe4d]

I'd let the smith choose. If your paying for the work and experience I figure that experience would be way better at choosing components than I am.

[Mistral404]

I had Tripp build my Single Stack. It started with a Wilson frame. This is a bar stock frame. No-I am not trying to start a flame war on bar stock v. .... It is a great frame for a great price. Almost all the big names --Wilson, Baer, Nowlin, etc. have frames that you can buy. Caspian makes a good frame. My slide was a Caspian, since it was in .40 S&W. At the time Wilson did not make a .40 slide.

I have a Trojan. My .22 conversion mags do not fit in the frame. STI makes great stuff and people are very successful with their guns. My Trojan went back to them at least 5 times, including a broken barrel. A lot of big time gunsmiths use STI.

The gunsmith is really the key. Kodiak Precision builds awesome guns. Matt McLearn is a great smith. There are others out there who others may prefer. Virgil and I had at least four conversations before I settled on him. To me, it was important to be able to communicate with the gun builder. Given where you live, I would recommend Derek at Millinium. He is a good guy. Always very helpful.

You can pick your own parts, just so long a you do go cheap! Go first class all the way and you will not be disappointed in the long run and it is cheaper.

[ryan45kim]

Does Wilson really make there frames out of bar stock?

That means they take a solid block of steel and mill it into a frame?

I’m pretty sure they use a forged frame not bar stock but I could be wrong.

[whitehedr]

Joel,

You don't like the "Trojan" name? Perhaps they sould of called it "Sheik" or something else

Chuck

ROFLMAO That is funny!!!!!!! :roflol: :roflol:

RWW

[chrisjohn]

STI makes good slides and frames although if I were building another gun right now I would probably take a good look at Fusion Firearms frames and slides (quality products from what we have seen and good prices as well).

I would actually probably mix a Fusion forged frame with an STI slide just for kicks...

I've still got to finish my Springfield full build though, too much fitting and not enough time

Fusion parts are rebranded STI for the most part.

[pjb45]

My Wilson frame is bar stock. So is Nowlin, Baer, etc.

Forged for Caspian and STI

There are excellent threads on the pros and cons of both. I think I read it summed up best as good forged is better than poor bar stock.

[Canuck-IL]

Per their own catalog, Caspian frames are machined from blanks cast by Ruger's Pine Tree Casting Division.

/Bryan

[ironb]

Here's a little excel file I put together to help me build a custom 2011 gun I am thinking of doing myself:

http://www.eccie.com/guns/2011-parts-list.xls

Enjoy.

-brad

[pjb45]

I need to correct my errors: The following is from a 1911 Forum Thread.

Bill Wilson says: "MIM parts have structural problems. MIM parts are not as strong as cast, cast parts are not as strong as bar stock, bar stock is not as strong as forged."

another source:

MIM (Metal Injection Molding): This is a process and does not specify the type of metal being used. The determination of strength of any part made with this process will come from the cleanliness and repeatability of the particular processor and the type of metal used. For example, you can use a perfect process and a bad metal and have a weak part, you can also use great metal and a poor process which imparts bubbles or oxidization into the part and end up with a bad part.

Sand Casting: Yet again, this is a process (a mold is made in two or more parts out of sand or sand and high temp resin and then assembled into a mold and the metal is poured into the mold) and the quality of the part will be largely dependant on the repeatability and cleanliness of the process as well as the materials used.

Investment Casting: Another process, in this one, a positive of the part to be cast is made out of wax, resin, etc... and then investment (plaster, or other material) is poured around the positive. This results in an investment that is one piece with the positive stuck inside of it. The positive is then removed (usually by applying heat, and sometimes vaccum). After the positive has melted out of the investment mold, the mold is utilized to cast a part. Yet again, the part quality will depend on the process and the materials used.

Bar Stock: This is really a silly general term. Bar stock can be of near any metal or material, and bar stock can be made by casting bars (commonly done with aluminum), hot rolling, cold rolling, hot forging, or cold forging. I would try to avoid ever classifying something important as a part made out of bar stock as it does not provide any qualifications about the strength or even basic material the part is made out of.

Forging (hot and cold): Forging is the process of shaping metal using impact force. This can be done while the metal is hot or cold, and you will recieve different results with both on different metals or alloys. Normally forged metal is stronger in some ways than cast metal or rolled metal. This is due to the fact that the forging process creates crystalin structures within the metal which are not developed through other processes. Unfortunately, improper forging can also result in brittle parts, or parts with high variance in strengths (torsional, wear, etc...) throughout the piece. Again, forging is a process and the details of the process are important and can have a great impact on the metal stock produced. The metal that is being forged is again also pertinent.