MichiganShootist Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) After years of waiting for high speed cable we finally got it installed and operational a couple weeks ago. We also have have HDTV and more cable channels that we know how to tune in. The install was a mess (re-wiring sound systems etc.) but now it's starting to settle down. I use a desk top (at one end of our house) and my wife has a lap top that she uses for e-mails and general surfing. So I bought a Belkin N class router. It sits on my desk and is hardwired to my PC. For my wife's lap top I bought a compatable Belkin wireless PC card. The problem is that even though my wife is only about 40 or 45 feet or so from the router... she gets very poor quality connections in the room she likes to use her PC. It connects every time but the signal strength ranges from poor to very poor (one bar max. out of 5 or 6).... and it's MUCH slower than my desktop. I was led to believe that an N Router would easily reach hundreds of feet so I spent about tripple the cash to get the N vs. a G router because because our 100 year old home has log walls in some areas and very thick walls in general. I have elevated router, turned it around, put it on the floor, and changed the directions of the two antenna on top and it makes no difference.. but if she brings her PC just one room closer to the router it moves up to 5 bars at once. So do the "waves" bounce off stuff or do they pass through stuff? Do I have any other choice other than running wires through the attic and relocating the router into a more central room? Running wires through the walls and adding an electrical source for the router will be a major effort since the old place has the type construction it does. Any other ideas?????????? Thanks In Advance. Mark Edited March 3, 2009 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I have the same setup with a Belkin 'N'. My router has to send the signal through 4 walls and that includes the hall closet. IMHO, you should be getting an excellent signal. I'd call Belkin's customer service. When I installed mine, I had a case of 'head up butt'. They were very helpful. Good Luck, A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The waves bounce off metal stuff, and go through and are sucked up by other stuff (especially things with water in them or otherwise microwave well). They're in the GHz range, so think 'microwaves' and 'line of sight'. Concrete is particularly bad for WiFi signals. I did a lot of testing of this a long time ago in typical houses around here and you could see on the network bandwidth the signal drop when a person walked through the beam. A leaky microwave pretty much shut the tap off. I'm guessing thick wood and plaster are probably pretty absorbent as well. I'll have to see if those conference proceedings are still on the net somewhere. 802.11 B & G use 2.4GHz like microwave ovens and a lot of cordless phones. If you have either nearby, try moving them around too. A and N can use the 5GHz band which usually has less on it, but doesn't go as far. Your router can probably be switched to use the B & G range only. That may help range-wise. It'll be a little slower, but that's not an issue if you're just web-surfing; even B is faster than broadband. You can get repeaters as well-- plug one of those in somewhere and it'll rebroadcast the signal. You can also look into powerline networking like HomePlug and a few others. They have separate issues, but can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 wireless signals will penetrate most walls, I have had issues with some of the walls in my home that have lead paint on them, older home, other than that a consumer grade wireless router should cover most homes quite well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) In the rooms between the 2 PCs there is a "frig" and my gun safe... plus some of the walls are 18" thick Edited March 3, 2009 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S. Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi, I'm your neighbor and your signal works just fine over here. Thanks for the free internet!! Seriously, that's why my router is not wireless and hard wired instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 see if the laptop has some sort of 'site monitor" or somthing to see if there are any inferfering wireless networks in the area. When I first fired up a wireless laptop at home, it jumped right on to the neighbors network. If you see another network try to choose a different channel. Also all the in the 802.11 2.4 GHz band overlap some except for 1, 6 and 11. I see a lot of routers default to 6. Try 1 or 11. RF propagation in the microwave region is a complicated issue where you not only loose signal because of distance and absorbtion, you also can loose signal due to what is called "multipath". If you are old enough you may remember playing around with the rabbit ears antenna on your TV to make "ghosts" go away. That phenomenon is due to the combination of signals that come directly from the transmitter and those that are reflected from objects. The direct signals get there first and combine with reflected signals in a positive or negative manner depending on many things. Like shred pointed out, there are a lot of things that use 2.4 GHz. If you have one of those stupid bluetooth things on your head, shut it off. The 5 GHz stuff will avoid that problem but the path loss and absorption for that band will be higher so you may not gain much, You may want to try to move the wireless router to a more central location. Also, borrow another laptop and see how that works. Wireless is a 2 way street! You mentiond that you had to add a wireless card to the lap top. I could see having to do that for "N" but if the labtop has a 802.11b or g interface it may be trying to work also. Some routers will drop down to the lowest speed client that they see so an unused interface could possibly be slowing down the router, If there is an internal interface make sure it is disabled. Actually the industry has done a wonder job making a very complicated thing "friendly" but it ain't perfect. If I get some time I will look into the absorption characteristics of 18" logs. I am thinking it may be pretty high. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Hi, I'm your neighbor and your signal works just fine over here. Thanks for the free internet!!Seriously, that's why my router is not wireless and hard wired instead. Good point. Anyone buying a wireless router for the first time, remember to change the administrator's password, select WPA or better encryption for wireless connections, and set the router to not broadcast the SSID. Beyond that, these routers just sometimes totally lose their minds for no reason and have to be reset. Unplug the router from AC current, wait a few minutes, plug it back in, try again. Should be Tech Support Standardized Answer #2, right behind #1 which is Log off, log back on, try it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I have had a wireless Linksys for years. I have a bi-level house and I can surf outside if I want. Excellent connect speeds. I have even set up my new IPHONE and it works great. Even though you just got your wireless router, it may need firmware updates and hopefully you have all your operating systems (XP or ?) UPDATED. Most laptops come with wireless built it. If you had to get a wireless card for the laptop, the driver could need updating also. As others have said, make sure you set the security correctly. If you do home banking etc, and your not configured correctly anyone can intercept your logon/passwords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 In one of the post above, shred mentioned repeaters. I had to install one in my shop which is part of a detached carport. It's probably 100 feet away from the router and the coverage was very "iffy." I put the repeater out in the shop and the problems went away. Well, the probs went away when I moved the repeater away from my storage lockers and cabinets which are full of bullets in bulk and uncast lead ingots waiting for the casting pot. Lead seems to like disrupting radio waves of any kind Anyway, good luck and as Mr. Noyes said, be sure to turn the encryption on. fwiw dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Bad News. I've been on the phone with Belkin all morning. (I believe it was India) They helped me test the hardware.... software..... change the channel settings.... etc. etc...etc. And it did no good I can get an excellent signal in some places.. a good to fair signal in every other room in the house.... But wouldn't you know it... the only room in which my wife wants to use the lap top rates only a poor to very poor connection. There are just too many layers of materials between the two PCs (the worst problem seems to be a large mirror on the wall... apparently those stop a signal cold). So it looks like I will be crawling through the bat dung in my attic to relocated the router to a more central place in the house. Thanks to you all for the ideas and insights. Edited March 3, 2009 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Good point. Anyone buying a wireless router for the first time, remember to change the administrator's password, select WPA or better encryption for wireless connections, and set the router to not broadcast the SSID. And use MAC address filtering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Dog Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Get yourself one of those little 12" WiFi antennas for your wifes laptop. You should be able to plug it directly into the card. Cards alone have lousy reception. yankee Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Good point. Anyone buying a wireless router for the first time, remember to change the administrator's password, select WPA or better encryption for wireless connections, and set the router to not broadcast the SSID. And use MAC address filtering... But I am on a PC, not a MAC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Get yourself one of those little 12" WiFi antennas for your wifes laptop. You should be able to plug it directly into the card. I like the idea.. but the brand new Belkin card has no way to plug in an antenna:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Good point. Anyone buying a wireless router for the first time, remember to change the administrator's password, select WPA or better encryption for wireless connections, and set the router to not broadcast the SSID. And use MAC address filtering... But I am on a PC, not a MAC... +100 on mac address filtering. this has nothing to do with a macintosh. MAC address filtering is a great way to ensure only those cpu's in your house can use yer router. consider the MAC address unique to the ethernet port/card on yer cpu (see, i didn't say PC, cause all i have are macs! Edited March 3, 2009 by outerlimits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandtime Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Get yourself one of those little 12" WiFi antennas for your wifes laptop. You should be able to plug it directly into the card. Cards alone have lousy reception. yankee Dog +1 also +1 to Linksys routers I have a Linksys B/G router with the long antenaes installed. I can get a strong signal anywhere in the house and can still get a strong signal outside about 100' to 150' away. I agree about the MAC address filtering but it can be a pain if you get many visitors/family that bring their laptops and want to connect. Instead of just giving them the password you also have to go into the router and add their MAC address. WPA/WPA2 password security is usually good enough if you are in a rural area. In the city with alot of people close by i would use the MAC filtering. Don't use the WEP password security as it is not too secure and their are a few Linux programs that can break the password in less the 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUnder Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Similar problem with bad signal pickup on a notebook, but it was the brand of card in the notebook. A different notebook with a different card worked fine in the same location. The signal was going through several walls as well as the through the concrete floor of the upstairs study no problem with one notebook, but very low signal with the other. Don't rely on MAC filtering. MAC filtering makes you feel good, but that's about it, as it offers little security and the average teenage hacker/cracker can get into many networks in a few minutes using the free software available. It's easy enough to sniff the MAC address from the packets being broadcast then spoof a MAC address and if they feel bored they can send a stream of end of signal messages for the MAC addresses and totally mess you about. Go to www.wardrive.net and you will find a site dedicated to helping others crack your network. If you want security, use a cable. If you use wireless, hope that you don't have a bored hacker living nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 First.... The card in her laptop has no antenna connection point and if I use a USB adapter type antenna I'm out the money I spent on the card and have to add another $50-$60 to this already expensive transaction. Secondly the card is the same brand as the router and is the model recommended by the manufacturer Lastly we have tried 3 lap tops and they all have poor reception in the same room. It doesn't drop off line.. it's just a slow process and the signal strength is terribly low. If I move 4 feet into another room it jumps up to 4 bars and a strong signal. This old house just has too many timers in the walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 First.... The card in her laptop has no antenna connection point and if I use a USB adapter type antenna I'm out the money I spent on the card and have to add another $50-$60 to this already expensive transaction.Secondly the card is the same brand as the router and is the model recommended by the manufacturer Lastly we have tried 3 lap tops and they all have poor reception in the same room. It doesn't drop off line.. it's just a slow process and the signal strength is terribly low. If I move 4 feet into another room it jumps up to 4 bars and a strong signal. This old house just has too many timers in the walls. Mark, Does the router have a fixed antenna or is it detachable? If possible get a higher gain antenna for the router itself this helped me before in a building with metal and concrete I got just enough extra distance that I needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) Hi Greg It's a Belkin model F58236 with two antennas on top. They can be folded and pointed in a specific direction and I've tried every angle of that. There is no plug or connector I can see for an external antenna. Only a row of Ethernet plugs for hard wired PCs. The unit operates at 20Mhz/40Mhz and has a straight line rating of 1,200 feet.... so it's a pretty powerful little unit. The madening thing is that the only place in my house (including the yard) that it gets poor reception is at the kitchen table.... which is the primary location my wife like to use it:( Mark Edited March 5, 2009 by MichiganShootist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 And use MAC address filtering... But I am on a PC, not a MAC... +100 on mac address filtering. this has nothing to do with a macintosh. I think Mitch was making a funny... Mark, it may just be that the wall in question is soaking up the signal... Relocating the router to that room may cause you to lose signal everywhere else! You might look at the repeater option first, and see if that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Unfortunately, the size of the antenna does make a difference. The problem with the laptop cards is that they pretty much have the smallest antenna of any of the methods of reception out there. That's why a USB adapter with an antenna or a laptop card that has a jack for an antenna is usually a better choice. Also, if the laptop has wireless G built in, it might get better reception than the laptop N card and better speed as a result. As a last resort, you might also want to consider getting a wireless repeater. This can pickup and boost the signal from the main router. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 The reason I was considering moving the router... is because it's in a bedroom that I use as an office at the far end of the house from the laptop. If I can move it into the living room it would be half the distance from the lap top and pretty much "centered" in the house. That's doable... just a considerable wiring job. Tell me about repeater. Do they have to be wired to the modem or router??? What do they cost??? If I could just plug one in anywhere that would certainly be easier that a relocation of the router--- but money is a big issue for us right now. I once looked at repeaters for cell phones (we really live in the sticks) and the damn things were way up into the several hundred dollar range. The nearest Radio Shack only carried one that was $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter hornby Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 i am not the geek in the house but i would try two things. first one is get a USB receiver and try it with the laptop. it made a big difference from the installed one with my laptop. you other choice instead of crawling in the bat dung is to install a second wireless router halfway between your base and your wife's laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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