Ben Stoeger Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I've yet to hear from someone who really wanted to go and couldn't get in. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I agree with Nik, one National 5 or 6 days or rather half days, all divisions at the same time 30 stages. Jim Some people can't take a whole week off of work. That really shouldn't be the deciding factor for a NATIONAL Championship...... IIRC, there were some shoot through passes issued for teachers and students; on a very limited basis that might be able to be worked out for a six day Nationals as well --- but would involve a couple of squads shooting both rotations for half the days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 The best Nationals I've ever shot was the 2004 in Barry --- All five divisions on a single set of 24 stages over five half-days of shooting. I'd love to do that again....IIRC, attendance approached 500? Not that anyone cares about my opinion, but I couldn't agree more. Let's hear it for Barry! That wasn't meant to be a Barry endorsement --- although it's pleasant in September, as long as the weather holds. Barry in July, not so much.... It was meant to be a format endorsement --- the match felt like a party because everyone shot every day; you could actually hang out with the people shooting the opposite rotation, and last but not least 24 stages over five days is more of a shooting test than 18 over three days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I've yet to hear from someone who really wanted to go and couldn't get in. A lot of rumors but no real stories. There were a couple of walk on's that i personally witnessed get in the match. I you truly want to shoot, book the time regardless of your slot status. You WILL get to shoot. We were walk ons for the Open/L10 nationals. We were told there were 23 walk ons before us. We thought that with all the hurricane stuff going on, Ike in TX or LA, LA recovering from a hurricane and hurricanes stacking up off FL, that there would be enough shooters that could not make it to give us a slot. The squad we were shooting on only had 8 shooters some were no shows and some were shooters that were there, but decided not to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Walk-ons are a danged if you do and danged if you don't scenario. If you guarantee that anyone who "just shows up" will get a slot, all hell will break loose at the nationals, squads will be overloaded, and it's impossible to properly plan for squad sizes, match flow, etc. If you don't guarantee walk-ins will get a slot, far fewer people will invest in airfare+hotel+rental car to try to get one, so there is a pretty good chance anyone who shows up will get one. So, while USPSA has historically accommodated those who "just show up", it not something the organization can promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I've yet to hear from someone who really wanted to go and couldn't get in. Bingo I have. Not that they went and didn't get in. That they were on the waiting list and wouldn't chance the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I agree with Nik, one National 5 or 6 days or rather half days, all divisions at the same time 30 stages. Jim Some people can't take a whole week off of work. some people need new jobs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I have. Not that they went and didn't get in. That they were on the waiting list and wouldn't chance the trip. When did they get on the waiting list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 FWIW, I was 124th on the LPR list, I signed on about 24 hours after the fact, so you don't have to hit it at midnight. Also, my LPR squad was down two, and my OL10 squad was down one. You'll get in. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted September 26, 2008 Author Share Posted September 26, 2008 Hmmmm. One point I was trying to make is to eliminate the waiting list notification period. Sure some folks go into the match that were way down the list. That is great. I know of 1 GM who got his notification less than a month before the match. He went hunting in Alaska instead. Great trip but Nationals was his first choice. There a folks that want to go and get their travel and vacation arrangements completed in a reasonable amount of time. The lottery system if correctly implemented could help out. Mike Vioght is charged with putting on the Nationals. His goal is to at least break even. More shooters helps achieve that goal. The other point is the method of signing up is quite frankly sophomoric. The idea that 600 hundred shooters rushing to their PCs to get on a waiting list to generate interest so the match will fill up is ludricous. The discouraging part is the attitude that "this is the way we have always done it" inhibits progress and improvement. Quite frankly there is a GM who used his palm to do the scoring at indoor matches 6 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 The idea that 600 hundred shooters rushing to their PCs to get on a waiting list to generate interest so the match will fill up is ludricous. It's not about generating interest, but about finding a way to allocate the waitlist slots in a manner that is fair, transparent, and practical to administer. The waitlist is one way; a lottery is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I have. Not that they went and didn't get in. That they were on the waiting list and wouldn't chance the trip. When did they get on the waiting list? I'm not sure. He may not have gotten on at the midnight opening, due to his work. Coming into the last days before the match, he was about a dozen deep on the wait list. He wanted to go...badly. He didn't have a slot ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 IIRC in Tulsa they said they'd never had to turn away a walk-on. Is that true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 IIRC in Tulsa they said they'd never had to turn away a walk-on. Is that true? To my personal knowledge, the USPSA Nationals has never turned away a walk on who was present when registration opened for the match and desired to shoot and was ready to shoot. For any match, there will always be no shows for whatever reason. There of course is no guarantee you will be able to shoot with your buddy and actually better odds what you will not but I have never heard of anyone who wanted to participate that we did not have room for them to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 The Limited Nationals in Fredricksburg, VA turned shooters away I was told by some shooters. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 The Limited Nationals in Fredricksburg, VA turned shooters away I was told by some shooters.Rich That may have happened but I do know of one shooter who drove up there without a slot and was able to get into the match by being there when the doors opened for registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I was on the list. Made it to #7. I was going to Tulsa anyway since the little lady had a slot. I showed up,paid my money, and was able to shoot with her squad. USPSA was very accommodating. But, several weeks before the match I was reminded that there would be no guarantees that I would be able to shoot , and if I did get on it would not be likely that I would get on her squad but they would try to squad us. So the $100 question would be, is it worth it to risk travel $, and hotel $ and vacation time on a non guarantee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 limited nats in reno years ago had about 20 walk-ons...and it filled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamakiri Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 An 8 pm (EST) sign-up for the wait list would work for everyone if it was on a weekend instead of in the middle of the work week, as it has been for at least the past several years. Having it on Wednesday night makes no sense. At least this year the sign-up/payment process was improved considerably, though, so progress is definitely being made... As far as getting in as a walk-on: My brother did that in Barry in '05 (he had a slot for L-10 so figured he'd try to do Production as well, it being a back-to-back format), and although he was there right at the start of registration he was told he might or might not get in, and only given the go-ahead literally 10 minutes before the shooting started, with one of the last two or three spots available. Things seem to change a lot from year to year. This year, with the economy being so bad and the hurricane season messing things up for many southeastern shooters, there was more space available, but there's no guarantee those conditions will continue; it's easy to imagine a sold out match again in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blownhemi Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 If you want to free up some slots why not limit everyone to shooting just one division? Now I'll go and get my flame suit on. Seriously though, nowhere else lets you shoot in multiple divisions. You pick a division (production for example) and do your best. That's the way it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 If you want to free up some slots why not limit everyone to shooting just one division? Now I'll go and get my flame suit on. Seriously though, nowhere else lets you shoot in multiple divisions. You pick a division (production for example) and do your best. That's the way it should be. I am certainly not going to flame you for that. If we currently limited everyone to just one division, we would likely not fill the match. While we might fill the match, the members are better served by full matches since the match loses less money. Rather than say we should should limit shooters to just one division, would it not make sense to host a week long match that would allow 500 shooters to shoot their division of choice in one big nationals? I am not saying I am ready to abandon the current back to back nationals format. What I would want to do is that which would best serve the membership of USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blownhemi Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 If you want to free up some slots why not limit everyone to shooting just one division? Now I'll go and get my flame suit on. Seriously though, nowhere else lets you shoot in multiple divisions. You pick a division (production for example) and do your best. That's the way it should be. I am certainly not going to flame you for that. If we currently limited everyone to just one division, we would likely not fill the match. While we might fill the match, the members are better served by full matches since the match loses less money. Rather than say we should should limit shooters to just one division, would it not make sense to host a week long match that would allow 500 shooters to shoot their division of choice in one big nationals? I am not saying I am ready to abandon the current back to back nationals format. What I would want to do is that which would best serve the membership of USPSA. I think you'd make up for it in international entries. I know lots of Australian's would like to compete at the USPSA Nationals but the general impression over here is that you have no chance of getting a spot so why even try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamakiri Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I guess the number of divisions people are allowed to shoot at Nationals partly depends on the purpose of the match. If it's to determine who is the best shooter in a given division in a given year, then there really should be a separate event for every division, and shooters should be allowed to enter all of them. It's certainly true that there are many years where one or another of the top competitors is good enough to win several divisions, and if all the top dogs aren't able to compete in a given division, then the pool is watered down considerably and the contest is that much less interesting. For example, Dave Sevigny hasn't competed in Limited since winning it in '06; likewise Rob Leatham hasn't shot Production at Nationals since his win. I think it's a shame when the best guys don't get to put ALL their skills to the test. I doubt anyone would suggest that Michael Phelps should only have competed in one swimming event at the latest Olympics... On the other hand, I realize that current economic realities make six different Nationals a totally unrealistic goal at the moment. I think that the back-to-back 2 and 3 division format we've been following for the past few years is a reasonable compromise under the circumstances, and makes for excellent matches that draw just enough shooters to more or less fill them completely. If we do get to the point (which we were on the edge of for a few years) where there aren't enough slots for those who really want to go, then the size of the match should definitely be expanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGentry Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I was on the list. Made it to #7. I was going to Tulsa anyway since the little lady had a slot. I showed up,paid my money, and was able to shoot with her squad. USPSA was very accommodating. But, several weeks before the match I was reminded that there would be no guarantees that I would be able to shoot , and if I did get on it would not be likely that I would get on her squad but they would try to squad us. So the $100 question would be, is it worth it to risk travel $, and hotel $ and vacation time on a non guarantee? I rode up to Nationals this year with 2 shooters who took the chance of showing up with no slot. It was risky and un-certain! When we got there the staff gave them slots together and let them shoot! If you want to shoot bad enough it is worth the risk of going to Nationals but end of a photo taker. How bad do you want to shoot it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I say keep it like it is;If staying up til midnight one night, to be able to get a slot to shoot the NATIONALS is a big deal, then I would question how badly they want to attend. -versus, all the "yeah, Ill send in a application for the Nats lottery, maybe Ill get lucky." Id rather have a hungry field of competitors at the nationals, not a lucky field. Yeah, except for those of us who have to be up at 0230 to drive an 80K pound truck on the highway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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