DQ at the range

[Matt Cheely]

I had a close call earlier this year at an IDPA match. The stage was part of the postal match, stage 4 I believe. You had to shoot two static targets, advance to another position shoot two static targets, retreat to a stack of barrels while shooting targets. Then from around the barrels shoot a couple of static targets.

I decided to pull the pin on this one and see what I could do. Buzzer goes off and I execute my plan. I finish retreating and engaging targets, by now I am at the stack of barrels. I get around the barrels index on the next target and OMG the RO is standing infront of me !!!!! I stop, lower the gun and give him a WTF look !! He tells me to keep shooting ( after he gets out of the way). I finish shooting and unload/show clear. He tells me that he is sorry and is clearly shaken,I walk away clearly shaken by the chain of events.

My shooting buddy has a chat with the the RO and then comes over to me to inform me that they are gonna give me a reshoot. I shoot the stage again, afterwards the RO and I had a discussion and tried to figure out what happend. Basically, I moved alot faster than he anticipated and the RO didn't stay behind the shoot, he went to the side, the direction I was going. Huge mistake on the RO's part.

Nasty... I don't think I could have kept shooting after that one.

Truly the mother of all screw ups for an RO

If that had been me, I might have shot the guy since I'd be ready to shoot as soon as I got to the edge of the barrel! Scary

[kevin c]

...How safe do you think flashlight stages are?

We just had one at the regional IDPA match hosted at my club.

Single room with targets at the far end. The shooter engaged targets from an antechamber that had enough light for the SO to see what what going on. The shooter was not allowed to actually enter the dark room. For the sake of safety it was a no cover scenario, with the barricades there only to block light. A limit line was set up so that shooters wouldn't move forward out of the SO's control (iffy by the rules, I know, but safety was the designer's concern). The flashlight started on (no fumbling with a loaded gun in hand) and you could bring your own. Unloading occured in the light only. Fresh batteries and spare lights were available.

As far as I know, nothing unsafe happed on the stage.

Edited July 26, 2008 by kevin c

[Shaky Dave]

These stories are the reason Im always looking at things in RO mode .I have most of these occur myself .

[ima45dv8]

I've CRO'd stages at a good many majors in the last 8 years, and RO'd too many local matches to remember (like many others here). Lots of learning in that time.

======================

Local match - I'm just another shooter. I'm starting to walk downrange to begin pasting when the shooter looked confused. I turned to my buddy next to me and said "You don't think he's gonna turn around, do you?" I no sooner got the words out of my mouth when he did. **Part of his brain must have been functioning - at first - because the gun was still pointed downrange. But then reflex took over and he swung the muzzle down and up in an arc (to his forward view, straight uprange).

He caught me flat-footed and swept me crotch-to-eyeball with his pistol. It was so quick I had no time to react and decide to move out of the way. Yes, he's still a close friend, and I know he felt terrible for it. Sometimes good people do bad things.

======================

Start position was in a replica of a car. I warned shooters about exiting the car. "Don't sweep yourself!" One particularly old gentleman not only swept himself, he paused with a .45 pointed at his left forearm (3" away). I somehow managed to hold my breath and scream until the muzzle was clear of soft, pink flesh. He broke my heart because he just COULD NOT believe I was telling the truth. Sweet man, but probably beyond the faculty required for competition.

======================

"Load and Make Ready". Shooter (GM) cycles slide and round discharges into the wall in front of him. The first thing I saw was the blood all over his left hand. I just knew he'd shot himself. As I'm looking down for fingers on the ground I come to realize it was only the rear Bomar-type sight that got him (ripped his palm all to hell and gone).

======================

Local indoor match. Shooter gets confused, so to get his bearings he does a complete 360 turn, safety off, finger on trigger.

======================

Night shoot. Shooter's doing a reload while moving from one side of a barricade to the other. Round fires through barricade as mag seats. For a few seconds I was convinced he had shot himself. About the time I get my flashlight turned on he's already unloaded and heading for his car. He saved me from having to tell him he'd DQ'd

======================

I'll stop now.

More times than I can recall I've had shooters sweep themselves during a stage, or break the 180, with blinding speed. If I'm grateful for anything, it's that I either have slow reflexes or have learned to hold my breath until the muzzle wasn't pointed at anything important.

Early on I was chastised by a more seasoned shooter for not controlling the shooter better when running the timer. You know what? That's a pipedream. Unless they're so new and so slow that you can stop them, they'll do something bad before you even realize what's happened. I later asked John Amidon about that and he agreed -- sometimes it happens so fast you're just along for the ride. Prayers said at the speed of light might help.

[bulm540]

I had a close one years ago. This was a local match. Start was stadnign facing uprange with targets to the left and right of the shooter. On signal shooter draws gun and shoots targets to his his Right and for some unknown reason shooter turns uprange to engage targets to his left sweeping me and the squad. I had to take a break from ROing that day as after I cleared and DQ'd the shooter my legs started shaking.

Edited July 26, 2008 by bulm540

[Hi-Power Jack]

I remember reading Massad Ayoob saying he usually

RO's wearing his Kevlar - now I see why.

[chemepharmd]

While RO'ing, I was swept once by a ~13-year-old girl on a complicated field course, and I can tell you from experience that you can drive a hummer down the barrel of a .45 when it's pointed at your head at less than 3 feet . Discussion and DQ followed.

Many other AD and 180 DQ's observed, but this one was by far the most dramatic.

[Slabbie Shooter]

At the local Orlando USPSA match today, one guy on our squad made a turn around a barrel and swept the whole squad. I was sitting at the bench reloading mags, when I heard about 4 or 5 guys go "WHOOOOAAAAAA".... And they all stepped back a foot or two. The whole squad. In unison.

The guy kept a good attitude about it, his wife and kid shot the rest of the match and he pasted and set steel the rest of the day.

[MWGDVC]

"97 Al. State IDPA, had a hallway with doorways left and right. Shooter started downrange, had to back up and clear each room in turn. Had a shooter go to slidelock, turn around and start to reload. I still remember every detail of the breechface and firing pin hole, as viewed down the barrel of that .45.

L.E. only match, the officers were told the shoots were brown the no-shoots were white. This stage was a house clearing exercise. Officer runs past a no-shoot, glances back and sees brown. From then on I always double no-shoots in field courses, white on both sides!

Club match, a father brings his little girl, about 6 years old. He gets her involved in pasting. I get the range clear of personnel signal from another R.O., call out loudly "Clear Downrange?" then give the LAMR command for the next shooter when she comes toddling out from behind a low barricade.

Her father and I had a "discussion" regarding his watching his kid on the range. And I instantly gained a preference for see-thru props.

[CSEMARTIN]

I remember reading Massad Ayoob saying he usually

RO's wearing his Kevlar - now I see why.

Isn't 5.11 making a pair of pants with kevlar inserts?

[conrad]

At the local Orlando USPSA match today, one guy on our squad made a turn around a barrel and swept the whole squad. I was sitting at the bench reloading mags, when I heard about 4 or 5 guys go "WHOOOOAAAAAA".... And they all stepped back a foot or two. The whole squad. In unison.

The guy kept a good attitude about it, his wife and kid shot the rest of the match and he pasted and set steel the rest of the day.

Give that guy some kudos. You learn from your mistakes, and today he is a little smarter. If I get DQ'd I'll stay and help out.

[SteveU]

L.E. only match, the officers were told the shoots were brown the no-shoots were white. This stage was a house clearing exercise. Officer runs past a no-shoot, glances back and sees brown. From then on I always double no-shoots in field courses, white on both sides!

That's pretty bad.

[JKSNIPER]

L.E. only match, the officers were told the shoots were brown the no-shoots were white. This stage was a house clearing exercise. Officer runs past a no-shoot, glances back and sees brown. From then on I always double no-shoots in field courses, white on both sides!

That's pretty bad.

No actually its pretty good.

The officer was told to shoot certain color targets and he saw that color and shot it.

Ok so he was facing the "undesired" direction.

You have to be careful what you tell a cop to do.

A lot like telling Marines what to do.

I remember a young Marine reporting for duty at a weapons station where they store "Highly Dangerous Ordanance Material"

He was standing main gate duty.

THE main gate had 2 huge plate glass windows in the gatehouse which kept getting shot out by bored Marines playing "Quick draw!"

At night the windows become a mirror from the interior lighting effect and many young Marines tried to out draw their reflection with a Govt .45 loaded with 230 grain ball ammo. BAM!

SO the C.O. of the Marine Guard force decided to take away the .45s and make them stand guard with M-14 rifles.

No big deal except at this phase of the USMC not all Marines had been trained on the M-14.

Many of us were only trained on the M-16 rifle.

So this young Marine is standing the main gate with his M-14 rifle when the phone rings. Its the automatic phone alarm telling him that the P.X. has been robbed and to close the Main gate and "STOP ALL VEHICLES FROM GOING IN OR OUT OF THE BASE"

So this Gyrene runs to the incoming gate and closes it and while he is closing it he becomes aware of a vehicle heading toward the main gate from inside the base and its coming fast.

He wavers for a second or 2 over whether he should try and close the gate first then get his rifle or to run inside the guard shack and retrieve his rifle first.

He opts for the rifle (good Marine!) and grabs it up and stands in the outgoing lane while attempting to load it.

Now the M-14 does not load the same as an M-16 for those of you not familiar.

You can't just shove the magazine in like you can with an M-16.

You have to put the magazine in at a slight angle and then slap it down.

This poor who sahll forever be nameless Marine did not know this and hes trying to jam that magazine into his weapon like a you know what and he sees the car approaching very fast.

So he takes the rifle by the barrel and as the vehicle goes to run him down he steps to the side and flings the rifle into the windshield.

The vehicle goes out of control and crashes and the idiots inside it did indeed rob the P.X.

When all the excitement was over the C.O. comes to the scene and surveys the damage. Crashed vehicle....damage to the gate....damage to the building they hit....and the icing on the cake....an M-14 rifle sticking out from the windshield

The C.O. then growls very quietly to the SgtMajor "Give 'em back the .45s"

You have to be very careful what you tell a Marine to do.

He was told to stop the vehicles and thats what he did.

JK

[Nik Habicht]

L.E. only match, the officers were told the shoots were brown the no-shoots were white. This stage was a house clearing exercise. Officer runs past a no-shoot, glances back and sees brown. From then on I always double no-shoots in field courses, white on both sides!

This is one of those things to watch out for when designing and building stages. Often it's not necessary, but occasionally it's essential to put up back to back no-shoots.....

[bruce282]

Local match. Start facing a wall with a door in the middle. Draw engage 2 targets on the left side of the wall, move right engage 2 more, open door and head down a dark tunnel. Running the clipboard, buzzer goes off, shooter engages the left and right targets and throws the door open, and brings the gun up to engage 2 targets out a port on the left side, just as I see one of the guys on our squad coming walking around the corner. WTF? I yell STOP and everything ends up OK, but it scared the crap out of all of us. The guy downrange had no idea what had just happened.

ARO at a sectional match. Start facing up range, turn draw engage 2 targets on the left side run right engage more target and then move back left and down a hallway. Had 5 shooters slip and fall going around the corner. 4 of the 5 kept the gun downrange, jumped up and keep going, although one while laying on the ground looked at the RO with a "what do i do now" look. RO just said Timers Running. The 5th guy ended up falling at weird angle, his arm went under him and I saw what the business end of an Open gun looks like. He jumped up, pointed the gun downrange and was ULSCing before the RO could say it.

[Paul Burtchell]

This happened to me last week at a public outdoor range (not during a match).

I was shooting at the 7 yard line and another shooter who was shooting about 15 feet to my right on the 7 yard line backed up(without me seeing) to the 15 yard line and cranked off about 6 rounds rapid fire. :surprise:

We had a discussion.

[DMS42]

In 1964 I was stationed in Germany with an Armored Battalion as the medic. We had our own range where we ran practice with the tank, truck, and Armored Personnel Carriers. We had been firing the vehicle mounted .50 M2s at targets while driving on the special road. Scoring was done on how well the bursts covered the area. We took a short break for lunch then resumed firing. As we came up over a small hill there were some old WW2 tanks and APCs off to one side. The usual procedure was to swing the gun and open fire just as the vehicle cleared the top of the hill. This time for some reason the guy behind the gun was a little slow and had enough time to see that there were a bunch of kids with one adult scattered throughout the target vehicles. When talking to the adult he said that he knew that this was a range, but since he hadn't heard any shooting for awhile he had figured that it was safe.

While in the Army Reserves I was a light weapons instructor. One day on the range we were instructing and running qualification for a Medical Unit. One Lt.Col. was giving us lots of problems with his gun handling, but his CO and our CO said to let him continue but watch him. After firing a shot he had a habit of bringing the pistol back with his elbow bent and the muzzle pointed straight up, but sometimes would allow the pistol to point at his head (this we had the problem with). He had a misfire and before we could do anything he was looking down the muzzle of the pistol. An other Sgt. got there before I could and took his pistol away. The two of us decided that either he was done or we were. We won.

While in the Air National Guard I was helping out as a Range Safety Officer while a unit was running qualifications. One female shooter was having all sorts of problems with the revolver (among other things--she didn't want to be there and didn't like guns). At one point the revolver decided that it wasn't going to fire. She turned around with the revolver pointed at my midsection and told me that the gun wasn't firing and at the same time pulled the trigger several times before I could get the gun away from her.

I was coaching a female that was having troubles with the .45 because she was not only limp wristing, but she also was allowing her elbows to bend during recoil. This method would cause her elbows to bend along with her wrists which resulted in the pistol ending up pointing almost straight up. On this day she was wearing a loose fitting tank top. Yep, she managed to have a hot empty go right down the front. She let out a yelp and dropped the loaded .45 while she made a valiant but vain attempt to dig the offending piece of brass out before it burned her. Since I was married at the time I didn't request to see when she told me that both breasts had been burned, nor did I offer to kiss them to make them better. But the shooting session was over.

Another time on another range when I was again helping run quals. with an Air Guard unit one of the reqular CATM instructors had gone down range to help score. He came running back with his K-Bar in his hand and made a lunge at the above female, who was also a CATM instructor. Neither he, her nor their supervisor could understand why I was unhappy and had chewed him out. And after being chewed on myself I went to the head guy and told him my story and that I would not be on the same range as either of the three sincen one of them could recognize the unsafe and unprofessional act. So they got moved and the kid got his knife taken away.

[CSEMARTIN]

She turned around with the revolver pointed at my midsection and told me that the gun wasn't firing and at the same time pulled the trigger several times before I could get the gun away from her.

[DMS42]

She turned around with the revolver pointed at my midsection and told me that the gun wasn't firing and at the same time pulled the trigger several times before I could get the gun away from her.

Yep, loudest damn clicks I've ever heard. The screw pin that puts tension on the hammer spring had backed out so much that the hammer MOST of the time didn't have enough force to set off the primer. I didn't win the arguement to have her removed from the range. She complained that I made her nervous and her boss wanted her to at least shoot even though she was never going to have a qualifying score. And since her job in the Air Guard required that she carry a pistol she was supposed to have at least a low qual. score. But she had been told that no matter what she would end up qualified. I still don't know why the blue blazes of a hot spot she was there. So I moved elsewhere on the range and her boss and another RSO took over my spot. She needed to be watched very closely and even they had trouble with her as she kept wanting to turn around with the revolver pointed uprange.

[JThompson]

She turned around with the revolver pointed at my midsection and told me that the gun wasn't firing and at the same time pulled the trigger several times before I could get the gun away from her.

I have never hit a woman, but God help me, I think I would have decked her.

Edited July 28, 2008 by JThompson

[JKSNIPER]

I had that had her hand up waiting for assistance from her line officer.

She was impatient.

Her line officer was busy helping another shooter.

I had just cleared all my people and noticed her and started to move towards her when she turned around and while waving the weapon around in her hand while she was speaking she says" Can I get some help with this?"

She did not pull the trigger than I am aware of but I wish I'd of had a lump off coal shoved up my ass because I'd have the hope diamond right now.

People do weird stuff when they don't think.

JK

[rubberneck]

Very first stage of my very first USPSA I got swept by a shooter. The stage required the shooter to start facing uprange at the start signal the shooter drew and as he was turning and I had the experience of looking down the barrel of a loaded XD. The RO (a friend of the shooter) didn't DQ the shooter. I filed a complaint with the MD and the AC. I don't know what happened to the complaint as I have never been back to that club.

SO'ing an IDPA match at a local club we have a guy that everyone knows is an accident waiting to happen. He finishes the stage, I tell him to unload and show clear he stops for a second like a deer caught in a head light and turns to look at me as if I had just issued a range command in Greek. As he does so his muzzle follows his eyes right to me. After being DQ'd he had the audacity to blame me for it.

I was SO'ing another SO who put one into the ground about a foot and a half in front of his right foot during a draw. I have never seen a guy so embarrassed in my life. He practically ran to the the car in shame.

There are others but in the immortal words of Albert Einstein "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

[Johann the Horrible]

Had one of them stupid stages where you start up range and then move down range. It was in an old bus. Did the Eric thing and pointed the gun behind me and ran to activate the swinger. Half way down the bus it occurs to me to look for the RO only to find him looking at the barrel of my gun.

I made a decision that day to never shoot a match with a stage like that again. Had I stumbled we could have buried a good RO.

(Note: To me up range is there where the targets are and down range from where the RO is whathing your antics)

[NMBOpen]

(Note: To me up range is there where the targets are and down range from where the RO is whathing your antics)

Southern hemisphere reversal of direction?

[dbletap_ed]

I have had one DQ in my shooting life, which if you look at my number is long. There was a line of targets with a long shooting box in front of them. The way the stage procedure worked out it you ended up at the right end of the box and then had to move to your left. Well I left my brain someplace and turned to my right, as I was doing this I realized what was happening and pointed the gun down at the ground before it covered anyone. Well I had truly broken the 180 to the tune of about an extra 20 and just stopped. If you can believe it the argument with the RO was I said well that's a DQ and he said no its not. I won that argument and learned a great deal from the mistake.

Ed

L415

Edited September 27, 2008 by dbletap_ed