boz1911 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Sorry to be such a hardass, but a match DQ is not nearly enough punishment. You just can't fix "STUPID" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 That level of incompetence can get someone killed..arrogant show off stunt Boot him...we dont need that kind of crap in our sport. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 None of us should be put in a position to be around this dangerous player. I agree with this statement 100%. If this person doesn't get banned from USPSA how will we know if he is shooting on our squad at the next major match. I surely don't want to be near this individual. This guy should be treated like a sex offender and everyone should know his name, where he lives and where he shoots. just my $0.02 I agree with Tom on this. +100000000000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 At a minimum he should be banned for life. Information should be sent to the Area Director about this and to the Section Coordinator letting them know so that they can contact the local clubs about this action. It would be up to the clubs in that area if they want to allow him to continue to shoot there, however he would be banned from any USPSA shooting event. For what ever reason he did it, whether it was practiced or not, just the fact that this person would react in this way is enough to be banned for life. I will be very disappointed in the BoD if they were to do anything less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 He should be known to all, and it shouldn't be too hard to find out if you really want to know. Just don't post it here (would get the thread removed in a hurry, I bet). [Mod hat off] I've been trying to imagine how I would of reacted if I had running that shooter, and I honestly can't rule out physical interaction and/or bail. Expelling him for life is about the most USPSA can do, but still falls short of what he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 ...and tossed his loaded gun up in the air!! It rotated twice completely, came down and he caught it by the grip and holstered (almost like it was 'practiced')... Was the gun pivoting on his trigger finger or was it literally tossed in the air ?? Just curious ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 We had a shooter twirl an unloaded gun on her finger at a non-affiliated match. She was banned from the range forever. She had other problems as well, but that got her DQ'd and banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 No place here for him, and his name should be shared with AD's and SC's. For all I know, he can show up at a local match and be squadded with some newer shooters and do something boneheaded again. If not removed, his name should be shared with MD's from any major or sectional match so that his application can be politely rejected. Nothing states that you have to accept every application that comes in for a match. If we drop the ball on this one, shame on us. We are at a cusp, and if we truly do believe in safety (and all efforts to date have shown that) then the ethical and prudent thing to do is bid him farewell. Downside is he can go to some other shooting sport and muck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Perhaps USPSA or NROI, on an organizational level, can ban or punish this person. Perhaps not. But, on an individual level we can all take action. If I learn who this person is, as an RO I will never, ever run him through a course. As a competitor I will never, ever squad with him. As a person I will never, ever allow him to think he is welcome shooting with me. If every RO and competitor makes this same commitment, that clown would never again shoot another match, even if USPSA or NROI were unable to do anything about it. A blanket beating is not severe enough for this guy, but we do need to find a way to police our own. Just this past weekend, in Modesto, CA, a skeet competitor got his head blown apart by his buddy who "accidentally touched his trigger." http://www.modbee.com/1623/story/359022.html That was an accident which resulted in death. How would we ever explain an "intentional act" which resulted in death? Such an incident could very well be the end of our sport as we know it. I will commit to not letting that happen. Just my $.02. -br Edited July 15, 2008 by joker22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 This sport isn't for everyone. It demands strict attention to safety rules and more than an 8 year-old level of impulse control. The guy may be a nice guy...he may be a great guy....but let him play some other sport. He doesn't belong in the USPSA, I don't want to be on the same range with him. Anything less than a permaban is the wrong answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Someone who already posted in this thread had a better idea when he heard of this incident: It should be perfectly ok for his squad mates to punch him in the nuts, before he is ejected from match, USPSA, and list of primates allowed to handle tools. The unfortunate truth is that there are all sorts of yahoo's out there (as you all have seen from the tactical youtube videos) and some of them are going to find USPSA sooner or later, specially with the increased coverage in local news and cable TV. I think its time for USPSA to have "Do not take money from or allow to touch a gun" list which can be private but available to match directors. Yes I know there are liabilities involved but those of NOT doing it when when we know this guy is out there waiting to shoot someone at a local match is not only a higher liability, it is down right irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Should there be a more severe penalty for something so inherently dangerous and foolish?? Should someone who so flagrantly violates our rules and everyones safety be banned from USPSA or IPSC for life?? That is the only appropriate penalty IMHO. If a shooter is going to do something that stupid and reckless with a loaded firearm I don't see how anyone can trust him to be safe ever again. He doesn't have the judgment necessary to play with a loaded gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 Was the gun pivoting on his trigger finger or was it literally tossed in the air ?? Just curious ... Tossed in the air... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Tossed in the air... I agree with Vlad, we need the USPSA equivalent of TSA's 'Do not fly' list to prevent nutty people from shooting at all levels of this sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDB Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) I would notify the SC and AD so they could inform all club director's within the area. I doubt most of the clubs around here would let him play if they knew, hopefully his area is the same. In addition I'd say a good 5-10 year ban form USPSA HQ's and then a recommendation from the local MD, SC AND AD. IF he can get those recommendations, grant him a waiver to take the RO course and have the approval/recommendation of the NROI instructor as well before let back in. Chances are if he has that much disregard for are sport, he wouldn't go through the hassle to get reinstated anyway. This is without a doubt the most stupid thing I have ever heard of at a match and definitley needs to be addressed. By higher up. Edited July 15, 2008 by WDB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) This is just crazy... First, I'm glad nobody was hurt and second, I'm glad there were no news camera rolling. If someone has a video of it, I do NOT want to see it on the internet! As to the punishment, I will leave that to those above my pay grade, but I would NEVER walk on a range with this guy. Someone PM me with a name, so I can steer clear. Edited July 15, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 BDH, You, Gary and Larry need to document the incident and forward a request to the USPSA BoD to strip the shooter's membership and permanently ban him from any future USPSA events. Additionally, CC's need to be sent to his area director and the president of any club listed in his classifier's list for their use in whatever sanctions they see fit. I believe the clock has ran out on anything beyond that concerning local law enforcement actions, especially if he is no longer in the area. They might be interested, but I just don't see them getting involved at this point. We has an odd DQ in bay three you can add to the list of DQ's. We had an individual have a snap cap come out of his chamber at 'make ready'. He never fired a shot in the match. I think he was a fairly new shooter, but I've never seen that one before either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I saw a Moron twirl a loaded glock on his finger one time at a public range Idiots like this abound This or any other Darwin award wannabe..have no place among the fine people that respect firearms. Our sport has some of the most stringent safety rules out there...and they are nessessary in our environment. I suspect this guy will be persona non grata! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Although some of the suggested "penalties" mentioned earlier might be entertaining (Hi, Vlad ), the real course of action is specified in our USPSA Bylaws. Section 4.13 to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I saw a Moron twirl a loaded glock on his finger one time at a public range what kind of gun was it, something like a glock or a nice open gun with a pinned grip safety and 20 oz trigger?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) Although some of the suggested "penalties" mentioned earlier might be entertaining (Hi, Vlad ), the real course of action is specified in our USPSA Bylaws. Section 4.13 to be exact. 4.13 Termination of Membership: The membership of any member may be terminated without return of dues i.) upon written request of the member, ii.) upon the death or dissolution of the member, iii.) upon ratification of suspension from membership by vote of the Board of Directors, with or without cause, after the member has received notice and has had an opportunity to be heard by the Board of Directors. The President or the Board of Directors may suspend any member should they determine that the member has, or is likely to, by his acts or omissions bring discredit to the corporation. A member will be sent written notification of such suspension to the last known address in the corporate database. Such notification must include notice of the member’s right to a review of the action by the Board of Directors as described in this article and the member’s right to appear at such review. The Board will be notified of a member suspension immediately. i.) In the event that the member fails to respond to the written notification of suspension within thirty days of the date of such notification, the Board will terminate the member’s membership without further notice. ii.) A suspended member may request a review of the suspension by the Board of Directors. All requests must be submitted in writing, stating the reasons why the decision should be reversed. Requests shall be mailed to the national office with a copy to the Director for the Area concerned and to the President. The Board of Directors shall review all of the relevant facts concerning such suspended member's status and render a decision within 30 days after the review. The decision of the Board of Directors shall be final and binding. iii.) If the member does something really stupid such as, but no limited too, twirling a loaded handgun, the member could be castrated or otherwise rendered unable to breed. * *Proposed rule addition Edited July 15, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I saw a Moron twirl a loaded glock on his finger one time at a public range what kind of gun was it, something like a glock or a nice open gun with a pinned grip safety and 20 oz trigger?!?!?!?! It was an M&P (which further narrows down the division & possibly the shooter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 ...........wow, just wow. Same here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 WOW! Holy Crapola. The things that could have gone wrong here..... I would think as a MINIMUM punishment: 1. 1 year suspension from ALL USPSA/IDPA matches with information on what happened forwarded to NRA also so they will not have to suffer from this competitors foolishness. 2. Mandantory attendance of a safety class/beginner firearms handling class attended AFTER his suspension begins . Training from a reputable training organization (Ex Gunsite) and proof provided of successful completion of the course within one year or his ban becomes permanent. 3. Once he has completed the class he will be in a probationary status for the next 5 years or 30 matches whichever come first. Any safety violations during that 5 year period result in a lifetime ban from USPSA. Can you imagine the media storm USPSA would have had to endure due to this guys thoughtless stupidity if an A.D. with injury/death had occured? JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff686 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I was looking at this gentleman's classifiers on USPSA.org. One of them lists the club as "USPSA President". Click on it, and you M.Voigt's contact info. I've never seen it before? What does it mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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