DrawandDuck Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 She fell victim to the $3.29 per gallon flex fuel (.50 cheaper than regular gas here in Alabama) yesterday. First tank we have ever used. Took a trip last night 140 miles round trip via interstate and I was shocked at how crappy the gas milage was....It is a 2007 Cheverolet Avalanche that normally gets 18 mpg on the highway but with FLEX FUEL it got 12.7 YES 12.7 mpg !!! She filled up with 28 gallons so with highway driving that would be 355 miles per tank on flex fuel....with regular gas we could have driven 504 miles, 149 additional miles. So we would have to purchase another 11.73 gallons at $38.59......Same miles with regular gas ($3.79) would cost $106.12 but with Flex Fuel it would cost $130.56...$24.44 more per fill up or $4.66 per gallon. If you have NOT tried Flex Fuel yet I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU DO as it is WAY more expensive than regular gasoline..... Randal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I read about that when Flex Fuel came out. It will be a bust once more people realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Another fine example of saving a nickel to spend a dime. Or does work the other way around ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bell Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 It will be a bust once more people realize this. That is the problem people are too lazy or unable to do the basic math. I even hate this 5 - 10% blend that gets forced down our throat it returns less energy as well for the same price as 100% gasoline. Not that you can even find 100% these days. The ethanol we are using today is a negative return, until they go full scale with ethanol from waste products it will not make sense economically or even from a conservation standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 That is the problem people are too lazy or unable to do the basic math. [Ms. South Carolina] Uh ... I believe that some ... people in this country, don't .... have .... math. Um , I mean maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 It will be a bust once more people realize this. That is the problem people are too lazy or unable to do the basic math. I even hate this 5 - 10% blend that gets forced down our throat it returns less energy as well for the same price as 100% gasoline. Not that you can even find 100% these days. The ethanol we are using today is a negative return, until they go full scale with ethanol from waste products it will not make sense economically or even from a conservation standpoint. Greg hit the nail on the head. On my Tahoe mpg was reduced by 25% using "non-gas". And the local gas station is now selling fuel that a sticker on the pump says "may contain up to 10% ethanol". Since I keep track of fuel efficiency real close, I can usually tell which tanks have the ethanol and which don't. I have no problem with the corn farmers making a good profit for a change, but I don't like taking food off the table so another soccer mom can drop the kids off at the mall. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The point behind "flex fuel" has never been to save money and if that is why anyone bought a vehicle that is capable of burning it they weren't paying attention. The point behind it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and at that it does to some extent. Alcohol doesn't have anywhere near the energy that gas does. In racing we burn alcohol at twice the rate we burn gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 reminds me of years ago having some-one sure that by driving faster they got better mileage because they were on the road for less time .... " The Motor is not running as long =!SO! I must be using less Flue" by driving 85 over being on the road longer and only diving 70 . They never did get the "miles per gallon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) The point behind "flex fuel" has never been to save money and if that is why anyone bought a vehicle that is capable of burning it they weren't paying attention. The point behind it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and at that it does to some extent. Alcohol doesn't have anywhere near the energy that gas does. In racing we burn alcohol at twice the rate we burn gas. +1 The "flex fuel" is E85 Ethanol. It doesn't produce the same mileage as gasoline and probably isn't cheaper to use. However, we have to start getting serious about moving away from oil dependence. Brazil uses E85 in all their vehicles and is now energy independent. They import no oil. Worldwide demand is going to keep pushing prices higher and eventually demand will outstrip supply. Better to run E85 than run out of gasoline. I don't look forward to seeing gas shortages and mile long lines at the filling station. If you think it can't happen, you weren't around in 1972 during the Arab oil embargo. Tony Edited May 23, 2008 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I have no problem with the corn farmers making a good profit for a change, I do. There is no profit in growing and selling corn. It costs more to produce than it sells for. However, the government pays a subsidy, 50% when you plant and the rest when it goes to market. The farmer's income comes from the subsidy. So any profit to agribusiness comes from the tax payer, not from selling a crop. Of course, it does get us cheaper gas that costs more.... "Go ask Alice" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Sugar Our first cars were designed to run on Sugar Fuel, but of course during the Prohibition Years in the 20's, the Gov't was worried about people drinking what was supposed to go in the cars, so they switched to gasoline, or so I have been told. Sooooo, let's go back to Sugar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 SugarOur first cars were designed to run on Sugar Fuel, but of course during the Prohibition Years in the 20's, the Gov't was worried about people drinking what was supposed to go in the cars, so they switched to gasoline, or so I have been told. Sooooo, let's go back to Sugar From Wikipedia: The electric car was among some of the earliest automobiles — small electric vehicles predate the Otto cycle upon which Diesel (diesel engine) and Benz (gasoline engine) based the automobile. Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain), Scottish businessman Robert Anderson invented the first crude electric carriage. Professor Sibrandus Stratingh of Groningen, the Netherlands, designed the small-scale electric car, built by his assistant Christopher Becker in 1835.[5] The improvement of the storage battery, by Frenchmen Gaston Plante in 1865 and Camille Faure in 1881, paved the way for electric vehicles to flourish. An electric-powered two-wheel cycle was demonstrated at the World Exhibition 1867 in Paris by the Austrian inventor Franz Kravogl. France and Great Britain were the first nations to support the widespread development of electric vehicles.[6] In November 1881 French inventor Gustave Trouvé demonstrated a working three-wheeled automobile at the International Exhibition of Electricity in Paris.[7] Just prior to 1900, before the pre-eminence of internal combustion engines, electric automobiles held many speed and distance records. Among the most notable of these records was the breaking of the 100 km/h (60 mph) speed barrier, by Camille Jenatzy on April 29, 1899 in his 'rocket-shaped' vehicle Jamais Contente, which reached a top speed of 105.88 km/h (65.79 mph). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) The point behind "flex fuel" has never been to save money and if that is why anyone bought a vehicle that is capable of burning it they weren't paying attention. The point behind it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and at that it does to some extent. Alcohol doesn't have anywhere near the energy that gas does. In racing we burn alcohol at twice the rate we burn gas. At this point for myself it is ALL bout saving money.......$3.79 foreign oil gas or $4.66 "flex" gas.....Like I said, this was her first tank and a lesson well learned....Up until couple months ago you could not find a station that offered it, the Shell station is the only one on our side of town that has it......I never imagined it would cut the milage by 30% Gonna park the truck, let her start driving the work car Hyundai Sonota and I will just have to SLUM it in the vette....28 Hwy 21 around town......but then I can also get 14 around town too. Edited May 23, 2008 by DrawandDuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) The point behind "flex fuel" has never been to save money and if that is why anyone bought a vehicle that is capable of burning it they weren't paying attention. The point behind it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and at that it does to some extent. Alcohol doesn't have anywhere near the energy that gas does. In racing we burn alcohol at twice the rate we burn gas. At this point for myself it is ALL bout saving money.......$3.79 foreign oil gas or $4.66 "flex" gas.....Like I said, this was her first tank and a lesson well learned....Up until couple months ago you could not find a station that offered it, the Shell station is the only one on our side of town that has it......I never imagined it would cut the milage by 30% Gonna park the truck, let her start driving the work car Hyundai Sonota and I will just have to SLUM it in the vette....28 Hwy 21 around town......but then I can also get 14 around town too. Good idea. I own a Ford Expedition EL. It gets decent gas mileage for a large SUV (just over 20 mpg on the highway). I really need a large vehicle from time to time but just can't afford to use it to commute to work anymore. I just parked it and use it when I need it. A couple of weeks ago I bought a new Ford Focus (36 on the hwy). It is an excellent vehicle and I really do like it. I figure the money I save on gas will offset most of the payment. It's as if Exxon-Mobil is paying for the car. I'd rather put the money in a car and have something to show for it than just give the cash to OPEC. Tony Edited May 23, 2008 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 From GM's website: "Q. When using E85 ethanol, don't you get decreased fuel economy compared to gasoline? A. E85 ethanol holds less energy per gallon than gasoline. Therefore, drivers will experience MPG reductions depending on their particular vehicle and driving habits. This means that vehicles running on E85 ethanol may have a cruising range that is about 25% shorter than the same vehicle operating on regular gasoline. The Fuel Economy Guide (www.fueleconomy.gov) provides detailed information on the fuel economy and driving range values for both gasoline and E85 ethanol. When operating a FlexFuel vehicle on a mixture of gasoline and E85, such as when alternating between these fuels, your driving range and economy will be somewhere between those listed for the two fuels, depending on the actual percentage of gasoline and E85 ethanol in the tank." I could have sworn something was similar in the Owner's Manual, but can't swear to it. I'll look in my wife's when she gets home today. Having said that, GM and dealerships do not a pretty poor job promoting and explaining E85 and alternative fuels in general even though there are millions of GM E85 vehicles on the road, and even several Hybrid models being produced currently from Malibu to Tahoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 This means that vehicles running on E85 ethanol may have a cruising range that is about 25% shorter than the same vehicle operating on regular gasoline. So if they ever sell E85 for 25% less than "real" gasoline, it may be at least break-even economically. (Unless you add in the inconvenience factor of hitting the gas station more ofter.) Locally E85 saves you less than 7%. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Another fine example of saving a nickel to spend a dime. Or does work the other way around ? Our government and it's policy makers are extremely talented at just that. Only with them it's spending billions to save a million or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I have no problem with the corn farmers making a good profit for a change, I do. There is no profit in growing and selling corn. It costs more to produce than it sells for. However, the government pays a subsidy, 50% when you plant and the rest when it goes to market. The farmer's income comes from the subsidy. So any profit to agribusiness comes from the tax payer, not from selling a crop. Of course, it does get us cheaper gas that costs more.... "Go ask Alice" This used to be true in some areas. Now with corn selling for close to $6 per bushel, a farmer can make a lot of money/acre on corn. It's possible to clear +$500 per acre on a good corn crop. Corn planted on good land and/or under irrigation can yield 300 bushels per acre...that's a lot of $$$$$! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 There's a gas station about 5 miles from where I live that has Ethanol-free gas. When I fill up there I get 23+ miles per gallon. Everywhere else I get 20-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I'm still waiting on my personal jet pack to get me from point A to B...Didn't Walt Disney or someone predict that by the year 2k? Guess I'm stuck buying gas in the meantime.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdstihl Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 The only problem with the high priced corn is, that the fertilizer and pesticides they use to grow that corn are also petroleum based. Which is why fertilizer has gone up as much as 500%, depending what you're using. For instance, DAP (common ingredient in any blend) used to run around $135/ton, or thereabouts. Last price I saw on it was $850. So yes, the corn crop is grossing more money, but the farmer is also risking more money. (I don't grow corn or beans) Also, I agree that as of right now , ethanol is not efficient, same with the FlexFuel, the hybrids, and everything else. But I feel that we are at the same point now that personal computing was in the 80's. We're scratching the surface of ways to be more efficient and less oil-dependent. It's ridiculous to think we can go straight from gasoline to alternative fuels with no learning curve. But given time and high oil prices, it'll happen. I'm also hoping that the energy prices prod more companies into letting more employees tele-commute at least part of the week. Think of the energy that would be saved if, instead of driving an hour or more to work, sitting in front of a computer, and driving the same distance back, the worker could walk from the kitchen to their PC and work over hi-speed internet. With the advances in video-conferencing, and (hopefully) better wireless broadband, we could get rid of a large part of the rush hour traffic every day. Just my 2 pennies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I'm still waiting on my personal jet pack to get me from point A to B...Didn't Walt Disney or someone predict that by the year 2k? Guess I'm stuck buying gas in the meantime.... Here you go: JetPack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robomanusa Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 If automakers would design more cars that truly benefit from the use of ethanol, then all that needs to be done is to make more BEER.....then you have endless supply of ethanol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 (edited) The point behind "flex fuel" has never been to save money and if that is why anyone bought a vehicle that is capable of burning it they weren't paying attention. The point behind it is to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and at that it does to some extent. Alcohol doesn't have anywhere near the energy that gas does. In racing we burn alcohol at twice the rate we burn gas. +1 The point was never to save any money but to make you "FEEEEEEEL" good about not useing petroleum products ! You know, less dependence, less pollution, less of that carbon stuff, feel good stuff!! The thing is that demand is demand and until we make them run on straight "sea water", something that does not take any work to produce" the price per gallon of substance A or substance B will just transfer from one to the other. Right now we have a worldwide corn market crises because the price has been driven up so high ??? Kind of like oil ?? Huh ?? People are complaining because a Tortilla is too expensive to produce !! Farmers that grew food corn are ditching that for high priced ethanol corn causing a shortage of food corn !!! Edited May 24, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I figure at 85% ethanol, I'm getting 106 miles per gallon of mideast oil. Yeah the rest of the story blows, but if the incentive is there (see: Brazil), great things can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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