sigfla Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I noticed recently at an IDPA match I have a tendency to confirm my hits on target before squeezing off the next round. I should be confident in my hits as I am fairly accurate. This habit is slowing me down in my opinion as I could thru an enitre match eat up a fair bit of time just looking over my sights to confirm the hit then re-acquiring the sight picture. Is there any drills I can do to stop this? What do many of you do while in competition? Do you confirm your hits or just fire and move on and let them fall where they may (assuming you shoot fairly accurately/well to begin with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Learning to call your shot with your sights is an essential skill for action shooting. If you do a search you find the topic is much discussed here. Looking for holes is a real looser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Your focus is on the result...the expectation of the outcome. It's not on the execution that it takes to get the result. When you can change you mind to focus on the execution...you will see improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 After I wrote this I began to consider that "calling my shots" is more or less what I need to do to get over the idea that I have to see the result. I guess I wasn't linking the concept of being able to call my shots with the problem of looking at the result. It helps me now to think of it as doing drills to "call my shots" so that when competition comes I will know where they went instead of having to look for the impact. Would that be a fair way to describe the relationship between my problem and the common drills mentioned here for calling shots? I can still shoot pretty well and fast but my speed is limiting me at the moment b/c I know I can do better. In my youth when I wasn't so concerned with my hits I did better but then all I cared about was busting a cap. These days I tend to go slower and ensure my result is better. In the end I should trust my ability and run with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I noticed recently at an IDPA match I have a tendency to confirm my hits on target before squeezing off the next round. I should be confident in my hits as I am fairly accurate. This habit is slowing me down in my opinion as I could thru an enitre match eat up a fair bit of time just looking over my sights to confirm the hit then re-acquiring the sight picture. Is there any drills I can do to stop this? What do many of you do while in competition? Do you confirm your hits or just fire and move on and let them fall where they may (assuming you shoot fairly accurately/well to begin with). Only shoot targets at 25yds+ for a while. You won't be able to look for your hits (unless you shoot .45). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 These days I tend to go slower and ensure my result is better I'll would bet your not "going" any different, you are just trying to "visually" confirm the "outcome", one hole at a time, and therefore adding a significant amount of time to each run. Looking for anything other than what you "need" to see adds time, learning what you "need" to see takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 shoot black targets,, or another shade depending on the lighting and backstop. you wont see the holes so hopefully you can quit looking for em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 (edited) I'm having an issue shooting steel... my eyes are drawn back to confirm and it's driving me nuts. I don't do this on paper, just steel. Funny thing is I didn't do this as a new shooter... it's something that crept in along the way. I've been trying to break the habit, but am still struggling with it. Edited April 9, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 thanks everyone. I am going to start doing some drills at the range by engaging 3 targets at longer range as quick as I can without looking for the impact and see the result. It is funny I just pulled my last 2 IDPA scores and realized I had significanlty less TPD's than some other shooters who shot much faster than I did. On quick snap fire stages (closer range) my times were on par with theirs. It is only on the longer range targets that I would almost double their time but have less TPD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Or just wait a few years and the problem will solve itself ... you won't be able to see the holes and you will stop looking for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 thanks everyone. I am going to start doing some drills at the range by engaging 3 targets at longer range as quick as I can without looking for the impact and see the result. I think you still aren't quite looking at the proper (IMO) execution. "Shooting faster and not looking for the impact" is a focus on not doing a negative. That doesn't mean you have yet got around to focusing on the positive. You've just replaced it with something that isn't as negative. Find the positive. Find the most fundamental. Identify that, then focus on execution of the positive/fundamental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Just an idea, but you might want to try shooting a small stage of targets. Then cover all the targets up with baggy old darker colored t-shirts and shoot it again and see what you can see. Force yourself to focus on your sights when shooting the t-shirts. There are no longer sections of a target, no more easy holes to see, just your front sight in the middle of the t-shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Of course, the recoil isn't the same, but besides being way cheap, another advantage of using a.22 conversion is that you can't see the holes until you are five feet from the target. It helped me to do drills, with or without a target, where I fired multiple shots while maintaining awareness of the complete movement of the FS from initial sight picture to the next. It helps to be outdoors with a fiber optice FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I'm having an issue shooting steel... my eyes are drawn back to confirm and it's driving me nuts. I don't do this on paper, just steel. Funny thing is I didn't do this as a new shooter... it's something that krept in along the way. I've been trying to break the habit, but am still struggling with it. Mebbe try shooting paper plates? No ring to listen for and no fall to look for. Gotta call the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigfla Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 SA Friday now that is a great idea. I am going to try that. I'll bet dollars for donuts that I shoot faster with the shirts on than off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I'm having an issue shooting steel... my eyes are drawn back to confirm and it's driving me nuts. I don't do this on paper, just steel. Funny thing is I didn't do this as a new shooter... it's something that krept in along the way. I've been trying to break the habit, but am still struggling with it. Mebbe try shooting paper plates? No ring to listen for and no fall to look for. Gotta call the hits. I think that's wortha shot for sure. I was also thinking of cutting out some popper shaped targets out of cardboard and painting them black. ~Sorry for butting into your thread with my issue bro... I thought they were close enough that both could be linked.~ JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 It can get even worse on steel, especially with iron sights. The shooter will start to prairie dog (pop the head up) to see the target as they break the shot. Eventually, this morphs into also dropping the gun down...on top of a generally lack of follow through. Low hits/misses on steel result. (which is different from low hits resulting from trigger control issues...but the two together make a fine mess of bad habits ) So, then...what is the positive mental picture to have while shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Or just wait a few years and the problem will solve itself ... you won't be able to see the holes and you will stop looking for them! That is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 A drill that helps me with several things is this: Aim at a target, 15 yards (honest distance) with the timer started. Have another target 45 degrees or more on the other side of the range. When the shot breaks, transition and shoot the other target. The trick is that your focus is on perfecting the transition. The first shot SHOULD be a gimme; after all you have infinite time to squeeze a perfect shot into the A zone. But when your mind starts focusing on reducing the transition time, you can catch yourself doing any number of stupid things during and after the first shot breaks. This will help you to program moving off of the target while seeing a perfect sight picture when the shot breaks, and you should also start programming in remembering your sight picture after the break, during the transition. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 A good long-term goal, to always bear in mind, is to know where every bullet went without ever looking at the target. (Or before you hear the hit on steel.) It is difficult to understand and do in the beginning. But with a good approach and some experience, you won't doubt that calling every shot is single most important job, as a shooter, that you will always have. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck in C Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Exactly correct, Mr. Enos. As an old Bullsye shooter (with the emphasis on old) I can call my shots in a Bullsye match with no problem-I know where my hits are before I look at the target. But, I have never been able to correctly call my shots in practical pistol. My issue is recoil anticipation/milking the grip just as the shot breaks, which causes the hit (or miss) to not be where I called it. I then fall into looking for the holes and Flexmoney describes the result. If I call the shots and am seeing what I need to see, then I'm not anticipating the recoil and I can actually get somewhere. It all ties together into that visual thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 If I call the shots and am seeing what I need to see, then I'm not anticipating the recoil and I can actually get somewhere. It all ties together into that visual thing... THERE it is. That is the skill...above all others...that needs to be developed and reinforce. Calling the shot is the feedback. It is vital. Without it, how can you ever improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 It helps me now to think of it as doing drills to "call my shots" so that when competition comes I will know where they went instead of having to look for the impact. When you learn to read your sights for every shot during a stage, you will find it's an immense burden off your back. If you're running fast without seeing the sights, as you progress through the stage there's always a part of your mind, whether you're aware of it or not, that's back at the previous shots on which you didn't see the sights, thinking, "Did I miss, are the hits there?" When you know they were there, by contrast, your mind can just flow unencumbered to the next shot, and the next. When you finish the stage, there's a great feeling of knowing you did well, before you ever score the targets. You don't even realize how much tension there had been before, how much uncertainty, until suddenly it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 It helps me now to think of it as doing drills to "call my shots" so that when competition comes I will know where they went instead of having to look for the impact. This bad habit can also cause high hits. As the shooter raises their head to look over the sights, because they were focusing on the front sight at the time, subconsciously they also raise the front sight. The head moves, the front sight follows, the shot goes high. In any event, high hits or low, this habit is a total loser and should be exterminated like a plague of rats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 I just read this thread for the first time. I have been dealing with this as well. I can always tell where my focus was when I'm done shooting and my times reflect it. One of the things I tell myself before shooting is "Sights" as a reminder to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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