unleaded gasoline

[Harmon]

I hate the newest version of the high price crap they are selling as gasoline.

10 percent enthanol

10 percent water

72 pecent gasoline

8 percent arab sweat.

adding ethanol to gasoline to make it cheaper to sell is dumb. you burn 10 percent more fuel to do the same job.

Anyone notice their car or truck not getting as good mileage as it was? blame the enthanol. anyone seen a price cut? i havent.

my truck gets 18 miles to the gallon on regular unleaded. and gets 15 on the ethanol mix crap and at the stations that still have enthanol free gas, its only a couple cents more expensive a gallon.

There are only two stations that sell gas that does not have the 10%enthanol warning on the pump here in longview.

It is a shame.

[Alan Meek]

I hate the newest version of the high price crap they are selling as gasoline.

10 percent enthanol

10 percent water

72 pecent gasoline

8 percent arab sweat.

adding ethanol to gasoline to make it cheaper to sell is dumb. you burn 10 percent more fuel to do the same job.

Anyone notice their car or truck not getting as good mileage as it was? blame the enthanol. anyone seen a price cut? i havent.

my truck gets 18 miles to the gallon on regular unleaded. and gets 15 on the ethanol mix crap and at the stations that still have enthanol free gas, its only a couple cents more expensive a gallon.

There are only two stations that sell gas that does not have the 10%enthanol warning on the pump here in longview.

It is a shame.

I agree totally, ethanol is a product of the devil (big oil companies0

[AikiDale]

Ya know what? I think there is a lesson to be learned here....and it won't make us much happier to figure it out.

[Flatland Shooter]

The local gas station started with little placards on each pump that indicated "fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol". Since they were convenient and "price competitive", it did not slow down business.

Several months later the placards were changed to "fuel contains 10% ethanol". No one seemed to notice. Prices did not change and sales volumes probably stayed the same.

Recently all of the placards are gone. I asked the person manning the gas station about it hoping they were back on 100% gasoline. They didn't have a clue.

I always try to buy non-ethanol gasoline for the better gas mileage but if the stations are no longer required to post, what can a driver do?

Bill

[Viggen]

Ethanol buys off the biggest welfare group in the country - The Farm Lobby.

Some would say "support the farmer". Well, there are only a couple of hundred thousand of them, the lions share of farming is Huge conglomerates.

Guess which conglomerates benefit from the ethanol mandates and how active they are in all areas of political donation.

Follow the money. Darn, that always seems to work.

[Harmon]

there needs to be a minium requirement of what makes Gasoline...since its a blend of hydrocarbons, i bet it would be pretty hard.

I dont know how well they check the 10 percent ethanol rating...but sometimes while pumping "fuel" (since its not really gasoline) it smells like a wine-o drunk.

Harmon

[BrianH]

I heard on the radio today the greenies want to push it to 20%.

[Carlos]

I heard on the radio today the greenies want to push it to 20%.

Read the same here in D.C. area - all they need to due is push the EPA into signing off on the deal. Claim is it won't hurt our engines (much). Guess they forgot all those folks who are issued "vintage/historic" license plates. Auto industry opposes the idea.

[Bigbadaboom]

I don't like the price of gas not dropping even though the amount I'm buying is 10% less. I don't like the price of food going up. But, unlike others, My Nissan Frontier w/ 4.0 ltr. V-6 went from 19 MPG to 22 MPG and, since I drive 87 miles one way to work, I do like that.

[Michael Carlin]

We just narrowly averted an ethonal plant right in the city of Sparta, WI.

The comments above re the Farm Lobby truly representing a coorporate conglomeration are right on. One "farmer" got up to speak at a public hearing, he described his 4,500 acre farm as a "family operation". I do not think that is in the 80 acre league on which my grandfather reared my thirteen aunts and uncles, nine of whom lived to adulthood.

Do the math, if the spot price of corn is 2.99 ("Corn spot prices settled today at an average of $2.99 per bushel." (source http://gog2g.com/2007/07/26/the-cost-for-c...-prices-up.aspx )) and it takes a bushel and a half of corn to make a gallon of ethanol the price of straight ethanol is at least 4.49 a gallon. This does not include the cost of the water, and the heat, and also does not include the disposal or sale of waste products.

A gallon of fuel is running around 3.12 here. Were it not for the subsidies, ethanol would never be produced for use as a motor fuel.

A gallon of gas contains 125,000 BTU, another site Energy contents of gas and ethanol list it as:

"A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol

B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline

C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B.

D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A."

I am not an engineer, just an infantryman in the US Army, but surely looks as though the cost of traveling on ethanol at todays spot price is going to be about

1.53 X $4.49 or 6.86 for that same 116,000 BTU. Man that is some kind of bargain, NOT!

In addition the demand for fuel use raises the cost of corn which then raises the costs of all products containing corn. In addition the corn that is diverted to fuel use is then replaced with other grains. So the price of all food products, beef, chicken, pork, milk, butter, and grains like wheat, oats, rice.

Worst of all it raises the price of BEER

Burning food grains in our cars is stupid, and probably immoral!!

[Flatland Shooter]

We just narrowly averted an ethonal plant right in the city of Sparta, WI.

The comments above re the Farm Lobby truly representing a coorporate conglomeration are right on. One "farmer" got up to speak at a public hearing, he described his 4,500 acre farm as a "family operation". I do not think that is in the 80 acre league on which my grandfather reared my thirteen aunts and uncles, nine of whom lived to adulthood.

Do the math, if the spot price of corn is 2.99 ("Corn spot prices settled today at an average of $2.99 per bushel." (source http://gog2g.com/2007/07/26/the-cost-for-c...-prices-up.aspx )) and it takes a bushel and a half of corn to make a gallon of ethanol the price of straight ethanol is at least 4.49 a gallon. This does not include the cost of the water, and the heat, and also does not include the disposal or sale of waste products.

A gallon of fuel is running around 3.12 here. Were it not for the subsidies, ethanol would never be produced for use as a motor fuel.

A gallon of gas contains 125,000 BTU, another site Energy contents of gas and ethanol list it as:

"A. 76,000 = BTU of energy in a gallon of ethanol

B. 116,090 = BTU of energy in a gallon of gasoline

C. .655 = 2/3 = GGE of energy in a gallon of ethanol. A / B.

D. 1.53 = Gallons of ethanol with the energy of 1 gallon of gasoline. D = B / A."

I am not an engineer, just an infantryman in the US Army, but surely looks as though the cost of traveling on ethanol at todays spot price is going to be about

1.53 X $4.49 or 6.86 for that same 116,000 BTU. Man that is some kind of bargain, NOT!

In addition the demand for fuel use raises the cost of corn which then raises the costs of all products containing corn. In addition the corn that is diverted to fuel use is then replaced with other grains. So the price of all food products, beef, chicken, pork, milk, butter, and grains like wheat, oats, rice.

Worst of all it raises the price of BEER

Burning food grains in our cars is stupid, and probably immoral!!

Excellent Analysis!

Bill

p.s. And I am an engineer (retired).

Edited March 6, 2008 by Flatland Shooter

[sargenv]

When MTBE was the chemical of choice for cleaner burning fuel, my wife's car knocked like crazy. Flat surface, slight hill, steep hill, didn't matter, it always knocked ALL the time. We'd go to BC for Christmas or vacation and the first or second fillup out of the state.. and the knock and ping went away.. As soon as we put California Gas in it, that knock and ping would start. My wife was referring to the car as "our diesel".

Then one day I noticed that the knock and ping was gone.. I asked my wife and she said the same thing.. "now that you mention it, I do notice that". All of our gas has a blend of ethanol now and the car no longer has that "pinging" issue. I've not really noticed much change in our milage.. Her car gets 20-23 mpg, my Jeep gets between 12 and 14. It's been like that as long as we've had em.

[Catfish]

In addition the demand for fuel use raises the cost of corn which then raises the costs of all products containing corn. In addition the corn that is diverted to fuel use is then replaced with other grains. So the price of all food products, beef, chicken, pork, milk, butter, and grains like wheat, oats, rice.

Exactly! We are forced to use fuel that gets worse gas mileage - my cars typically lose 2-3 mpg when we shift to the crappy ethanol blend in the summers around here - so we have to fill up more often and the cost of EVERYTHING else that relies on corn goes up.

Brilliant.

Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[warpspeed]

I was wondering why my mileage sucked. Thanks for the info.

[splashdown]

Interesting, but how do you explain the E85 engines? That's 85% ethanol, so they must be getting...

(.85)*(.67)+(.15)*(1)=.72 or 72% of the fuel economy they would have gotten if they ran 100% gasoline. Is this right? That means a half-ton GMC 4x4 that gets 19 mpg on gas gets 13.6 mpg on E85. If so, where's the attraction? I mean, if the fuel cost a whole lot less, it would be OK, but it was shown above that is subsidized just to be competitive with petrol.

Now, who can tell me why the diesel prices have been higher than gasoline for the past 2 or 3 years? It's driving me crazy. The upside is that I drive a diesel VW Jetta and pull an average of 45 mpg, and I occasionally see a 50 mpg tank. There's a lot of other cars (trucks) that I'd like to drive, but it all boils down to cost per mile and I can't afford anything else.

Edited to add, to the original poster:

You've got 10% water on your list. I'd be more worried about that than the ethanol. Why the heck is there water in there? That doesn't burn!

splashdown

(Engineer. Definitely not a chemist:)

Edited March 6, 2008 by splashdown

[Joe4d]

Ethanol tends to attract water. Sorta why we used to poor a little in the fuel to get the water out of the gas as ethanol plus water makes a combustable mixture.

Hey here's another one for you. any one own a boat with a fiberglass fuel tank ? Guess what ethanol plus fiberglass tanks make glue which fills in your fuel lines and carbs with rubbery goo. If you have an older six gallon red plastic fuel tank ethanol does the same to them. So if your good engine suddenly starts running bad check your fuel lines.

and another complaint.. It isnt just anything containing corn that has gone up. What has hit me in the wallet is hay prices have nearly doubled if you can even find it. Hay fields are now growing corn. So even my non combustion engine transportation device/shooting berm filler creater costs more.

[LPatterson]

Fine now throw in the 65 octane high altitude 10% ethanol and you have some real crap. And ethanol content is higher in the winter than the summer to lower hydrocarbon emmisions. If I cross the mountains to the west the octane rating goes up to 67 octane for regular no lead but it costs more than my 65 octane crap.

Back when gas was 19 cents a gallon it cost 3 cents more for Ethyl because it was an additive, then in the 70's when they were converting to no lead it cost a nickel more than leaded because they had to refine something out. At a station that still sells leaded fuel it is 10 cents a gallon cheaper than no lead with 10% ethanol.

Kalifornia started this crap because they couldn't see from one side of the street to the other because they had more voters than the other 2 bigger states. There is something to be said for only having a population of 850,000.

[-JQ-]

makes me so mad I could spit!

[AZ38super]

Back when I was in South Dakota I was on the pit crew of a sprint car with South Dakota Corn Growers as a major sponsor.

We would get 55 gal drums of pure ethanol to mix with the methanol fuel we ran. It took a bit of playing around to get it to run right as it has a higher flash point but it burns colder and produces more power.

We could run a full race in 100+ deg heat and come in off the track, pull the hood (so to speak) and there would be 1/4" of frost covering the intake manifold. That is why the BTU is lower.

The World of Outlaws started to run it for a little while but it was pulled back because they were getting to much power and going too fast for a safety issue on some tracks.

It was believed to be hard on small cycle engines like lawn mowers because it would burn out the rings but for larger engines there is a plus many will not believe.

[tomfturner]

If your car is setup to run Ethanol, as AZ38super has said, it burns cooler for more combustion. However, the problem I have with it is that we are doing everything in the farm lobby's power to make it out of corn. Corn IS NOT the best source for Ethanol, but 'til we get out there and say "hey can't you turn XYZ into Ethanol" we will get increased prices at the pump. If we would get smart, we could turn all the "waste treatment" plants into "fuel stations", but as has been already mentioned farmers want corn to be used for Ethanol. More sugar is being turned into Ethanol now, but ... we've still gotta wait.

[Harmon]

AHHH! 3.15 a gallon for this crap!

im gonna get a motorcycle and run aviation gas in it.

Harmon

[JThompson]

There is a load of stuff you can make fuel out of... the bottom line is we need to get our asses in gear, so we don't have to send the boys to keep the oil flowing. Besides there will be no oil in 50-100 years and in a lot less time than that the only oil left is the stuff that is very hard to harvest and thus will cost us 8-10 a gallon for the stuff. We need to look at wind, oceans and the sun. All those will keep us from burning shit to make energy. If you burn anything other than hydrogen you are creating other problems, regardless of what it cost to your pocket.

Edited April 3, 2008 by JThompson

[kgunz11]

I hate the newest version of the high price crap they are selling as gasoline.

10 percent enthanol

10 percent water

72 pecent gasoline

8 percent arab sweat.

adding ethanol to gasoline to make it cheaper to sell is dumb. you burn 10 percent more fuel to do the same job.

Anyone notice their car or truck not getting as good mileage as it was? blame the enthanol. anyone seen a price cut? i havent.

my truck gets 18 miles to the gallon on regular unleaded. and gets 15 on the ethanol mix crap and at the stations that still have enthanol free gas, its only a couple cents more expensive a gallon.

There are only two stations that sell gas that does not have the 10%enthanol warning on the pump here in longview.

It is a shame.

For ethanol friendly vehicles the economy is actually better with the 15% blend, I experienced this first hand.

[Scooter]

Many people don't realize all this additive crap they put in fuel only takes away from fuel economy. If they put 10% additives into the fuel which in theory would burn 10% cleaner, but your car will get 10% worse gas mileage. So you burn 10% more fuel to drive to the same location, poluting the environment the same amount as if you put fuel without the additives.

If the entire US use one blend of fuel, fuel cost wouldn't be so high due to ease of production. Unfortunately, each state has their own blend of fuel and variations with summer and winter blend.

[EricW]

I hate the newest version of the high price crap they are selling as gasoline.

10 percent enthanol

10 percent water

72 pecent gasoline

8 percent arab sweat.

adding ethanol to gasoline to make it cheaper to sell is dumb. you burn 10 percent more fuel to do the same job.

Anyone notice their car or truck not getting as good mileage as it was? blame the enthanol. anyone seen a price cut? i havent.

my truck gets 18 miles to the gallon on regular unleaded. and gets 15 on the ethanol mix crap and at the stations that still have enthanol free gas, its only a couple cents more expensive a gallon.

There are only two stations that sell gas that does not have the 10%enthanol warning on the pump here in longview.

It is a shame.

For ethanol friendly vehicles the economy is actually better with the 15% blend, I experienced this first hand.

Believe it or not, a blend of 30% ethanol can actually give better mileage than straight gas. Don't ask me how, but my buddy's in the ethanol business, so it must be true.