USPSA purchases Steel Challenge

[AlamoShooter]

Thanks FlexY, I was starting to feel left out I was the only one with out some mud stain.

[Irishlad]

For a shotgun analogy the skeet shooting association, the NSSA, "took over", so to speak, Sporting Clays in the US, it was very good for them and the sport overall. When that happened, I wasn't so sure...but it seemed to work fine.

Aside from using shotguns and shooting moving targets, they sports are very different and the NSSA did keep within the "spirit" of sporting and help it grow for the most part. They did add some "American skeet" flavor with smaller gauges etc, but that didn't "infect" the main program of sporting as an "International" event and staying "competitive".

A lot of "synergies" between the sports in so far as members, clubs, etc so a smart move IMHO. There are limits of course. Merging Trap and skeet together, for example, wouldn't work well.

[Erhardt]

For a shotgun analogy the skeet shooting association, the NSSA, "took over", so to speak, Sporting Clays in the US, it was very good for them and the sport overall. When that happened, I wasn't so sure...but it seemed to work fine.

Actually there are three operations run out of San Antonio. One is NSSA, the second is the National Sporting Clays Association (NSCA) and the third is the National Shooting Complex. Each is an independent entity with shared admin staffs. The complex is one of the best shooting ranges in the country with facilities for Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, 5-Stand as well as a large pistol range. They have a vendors row which is well supported during the big matches. They also bring in a lot of sponsorship dollars - far more than USPSA. They have several key industry people for their sport involved in the organization. Theirs is indeed a system to look at and "borrow" from their best practices. The same is true for Trap and the ATA. They have had some significant successes in the last couple years, most notably their coordination with the industry on the Scholastic Clay Target Program which pulls in 1,500 young shooters to the Grand American and significant financial support from those manufacturers who recognize the opportunities presented.

In talking to Dave Thomas I know that he, the admin staff and the BoD are aware of the opportunities to learn from these other organizations and apply some of their tricks to the benefit of USPSA. That is the most refreshing aspect of USPSA. They are eager to learn from others and work with others for the benefit of the overall membership. - ERHARDT

[Lexor40cal]

The biggest bonus to USPSA out of this is that SC appeals to families and juniors, as it is a good learning ground for both. As we all kow the future of any sport is in the youth movements, maybe this will encourage a bleed over of family and junior shooters that are accoplished in standing still and shooting and more importantly "Safe gun handling learnt at SC" into our practical shooting arena?

[Chuck D]

I stand corrected...there seems to be extensive media coverage of the SC. I also would like to point out that very little of it has made it to the east coast. Maybe that's why I've adopted my viewpoints with regards to the "exposure" issue. Time will tell if this purchase will benefit both parties.

Another viewpoint that I can't seem to wrap my mind around is that SC would make a great training ground or "entry point" for shooters interested in USPSA competition. SC was and should remain a "stand alone" tournament. In addition, as in the marketplace...one should be wary of "monopolies."

[kmca]

Just from my personal experience, the small club that I belong to has about 2 dozen pistol shooting members. Of the 7 or 8 that joined recently, they all started on challenge targets. Of that 7 or 8, 4 have moved onto USPSA and went to the Steel Challenge last year.

[Kingman]

My only question at this point revolves around the idea that..

BOD and the president are not allowed to negotiate when they are up for reelection. Did I miss something.

Don't read this the wrong way. I am all for aquiring the SC. I love the speed events. I at one point did some traveling to shoot steel matches when I was younger. I seem to recall one up in New York that I actually shot probably 14 years ago or so, maybe longer. I love steel, and based on seeing the PSA this past year I can only imagine that we are going to have good things grow out of it.

Would I have liked to have some sort of input? Yes

Do I care that it was hidden? Yes

Do I feel there was a personal agenda? possibly

But I feel that I can overlook those for the positive.

[bgary]

BOD and the president are not allowed to negotiate when they are up for reelection. Did I miss something.

Not entirely accurate.

The President is normally empowered to sign contracts on behalf of USPSA, but there is a bylaws restriction that says he cannot enter into contracts that extend past his term of office, without the consent of the Board. For example, the president cannot enter into a 5-year contract with a Nationals venue without the consent of the Board.

In this case, the purchase of the SC is not a "multi-year contract", it is a one-time purchase contract. And, the full Board voted on whether or not to proceed with the purchase.

Bruce

[SV_shooter]

The biggest bonus to USPSA out of this is that SC appeals to families and juniors, as it is a good learning ground for both. As we all kow the future of any sport is in the youth movements, maybe this will encourage a bleed over of family and junior shooters that are accoplished in standing still and shooting and more importantly "Safe gun handling learnt at SC" into our practical shooting arena?

What about seniors or people with disabilities where IPSC style runnin & gunnin is out of the question? I think the lack of movement will entice many "retired" USPSA shooters as well as produce some new USPSA shooters out of those being exposed to SC. I only see benefits to both organizations if they are both attracting new players.

[Kingman]

Thank you for clarification bruce.

Once again I think it is a good idea.

[Bret Heidkamp]

I think it's a great idea to acquire SC. Think of it this way: USPSA is a business (thankfully, one that is in the black). You can either grow organically (which is how we've done it so far) or by acquisition. Any business that does not grow, or becomes stagnant, dies.

Not that USPSA wasn't growing, it was just going pretty slow, given the number of shooters in our country. I wouldn't be surprised to see a merger with Cowboy Action someday, either. Even though I have zero desire to dress up in old clothes or be called "Tex."

[omnia1911]

Congratulations! USPSA is the proud owner of a practical shooting match that actually MAKES MONEY!!!

Let's hope they prove to be good parents.

All this talk of the SC being used as a vehicle to expand USPSA membership, or encourage interest in "the real practical shooting matches" it is presently known for, troubles me.

All this talk of USPSA taking dominion over SC "lite" matches on the local level is equally troubling.

Leave things alone. Concentrate your efforts on this premier event called the Steel Challenge. That is where the money is.

[Gary Stevens]

Omni 1911.

Why can't we do both? What troubles you specifically?

Why can't we leave the money making, very popular, cult followed, SC match alone, as you suggest, and still develop a sub-set of the SC to be ran at club/State-Sectional/and Area matches.

Our membership is certainly talented enough to do both, IMO.

Gary

Edited December 17, 2007 by Gary Stevens

[Clyde]

Thanx to BoD for stepping up to the challange and obvious scrutiny.

I'm here to shoot.

[mikegot38]

Why can't we leave the money making, very popular, cult followed, SC match alone, as you suggest, and still develop a sub-set of the SC to be ran at club/State-Sectional/and Area matches.

Our membership is certainly talented enough to do both, IMO.

Well said Gary!

Mike

[rgkeller]

Omni 1911.

Why can't we do both? What troubles you specifically?

Why can't we leave the money making, very popular, cult followed, SC match alone, as you suggest, and still develop a sub-set of the SC to be ran at club/State-Sectional/and Area matches.

Our membership is certainly talented enough to do both, IMO.

Gary

Why not use USPSA's HQ's and USPSA clubs' limited resources to enchance the sport defined in our principles rather than dilute those resources and ignore those principles to develop a game consisting of low power, static postion, shooting drills?

Sounds to me like the BOD and staff are writing a check they expect the membership to cash.

[Alan Meek]

Why not use USPSA's HQ's and USPSA clubs' limited resources to enchance the sport defined in our principles rather than dilute those resources and ignore those principles to develop a game consisting of low power, static postion, shooting drills?

Please explain the differences here?

Thanks

Alan

[rgkeller]

Perhaps I don't understand the question.

The differences between SC and USPSA matches are enormous.

The difference between the value of a guiding central authority for SC and USPSA is enormous.

The differences between the skills required for SC and USPSA competition are enormous.

All this seems self evident.

[Alan Meek]

Why not use USPSA's HQ's and USPSA clubs' limited resources to enchance the sport defined in our principles rather than dilute those resources and ignore those principles to develop a game consisting of low power, static postion, shooting drills?

In your post you are asking to use USPSA's limited resources to enhance our sport, and then in the same sentenance you talk about diluting those same resources to develop a different game.

USPSA purchsed an already succesfull shooting discipline. So your comparision above is flawed.

Now USPSA could have spent the limited resources as you state to develop a new shooting discipline that would have no guarantee of being a success in the near future and that could prove to be even more disastrous.

- Alan

Edited December 17, 2007 by Alan Meek

[rgkeller]

Why not use USPSA's HQ's and USPSA clubs' limited resources to enchance the sport defined in our principles rather than dilute those resources and ignore those principles to develop a game consisting of low power, static postion, shooting drills?

In your post you are asking to use USPSA's limited resources to enhance our sport, and then in the same sentenance you talk about diluting those same resources to develop a different game.

USPSA purchsed an already succesfull shooting discipline. So your comparision above is flawed.

Now USPSA could have spent the limited resources as you state to develop a new shooting discipline that would have no guarantee of being a success in the near future and that could prove to be even more disastrous.

- Alan

So we can assume that none of the existing USPSA staff will be used for SC stuff. If they are, that is dilution.

And that the money spent for the SC did not come from the dues/mission count/classifier fees from USPSA members and clubs. If it did, that is dilution.

USPSA bought a match attended by 250 or so shooters including all the pistol shooting pros. And the opportunity to charge clubs and shooters at the local, section and area level who shoot steel matches some sort of fee.

[rgkeller]

"Now USPSA could have spent the limited resources as you state to develop a new shooting discipline that would have no guarantee of being a success in the near future and that could prove to be even more disastrous."

Or USPSA Directors, Officers and Staff could stop trying to change USPSA from its current role as custodian of a difficult and challenging sport to an umbrella organization of many different shooting sports.

A change being taken with no input from the membership, no debate during the recent election and no details as to the overall plan.

[LChico]

Omni 1911.

Why can't we do both? What troubles you specifically?

Why can't we leave the money making, very popular, cult followed, SC match alone, as you suggest, and still develop a sub-set of the SC to be ran at club/State-Sectional/and Area matches.

Our membership is certainly talented enough to do both, IMO.

Gary

Why not use USPSA's HQ's and USPSA clubs' limited resources to enchance the sport defined in our principles rather than dilute those resources and ignore those principles to develop a game consisting of low power, static postion, shooting drills?

Sounds to me like the BOD and staff are writing a check they expect the membership to cash.

And there are some of us 'ready to cash that check.' My local club already runs a very active USPSA program (since the late 1980's) and we started a Steel Challenge match last year. Initially, the steel matches attracted mainly our USPSA shooters who wanted more practice on steel. But we started to get cross-over from our IDPA, pistol silhouette and revolver shooters. No one is forcing anyone to run a steel match, but for those of us who already do so, or those who would like to branch out, it is a great option.

You stress the "low power, static position, shooting drills," but Steel Challenge matches also stress safe gun handling, accuracy, and, of course, speed. To the shooters who later try USPSA matches, those skills may come in handy. Several shooters have mentioned that age no longer allows them to be as competitive in USPSA. And on the subject of age, as a stats person, I am aware that a growing number of our shooters are seniors and super seniors. It is great that their accuracy and speed can determine the outcome rather than their lack of flexibility. Hopefully, we will all get there some day.

I haven't seen too much mention of disease or disability. We have a local shooter with a bad back, who cannot help re-set steel, pick up brass or magazines, or run and change positions easily. He still shoots USPSA but his times approach 2 minutes on any stage that is not a classifier. He loves the steel matches. My husband has leukemia. He rarely has the energy to finish even a 5 stage USPSA level 1 match, but he can still be competitive at the steel matches. Just because shooters are older or ill, it doesn't mean they don't want to shoot and don't want to be competitive.

My club wants to use our 'limited resources' to put more safe shooters on the range, competing in organized events. I just don't see the down side to this.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[Flexmoney]

The "umbrella" talk has been around for a bit, I believe. I recall it was around before the election. I think we saw it take shape when USPSA went with the current track of running USPSA and IPSC matches in the United States.

Instead of using the term "dilution", I might suggest it is an allocation of resources. In this case, an allocation made...stategically...by the leaders of the organization. Which is what we elect them to do.

Whether the allocation of resources leaves us worse off or better off...that remains to be seen.

[rgkeller]

Ms. Chico,

The "downside" is the resources spent by USPSA to buy something that the members and the clubs could and have already done.

Are you willing to send USPSA club fees and mission count fees for your SC matches? What do you expect to receive in return?

[Flexmoney]

As far as the shooting goes, USPSA is about the practical application of combat firearms in a sporting environment. (or, something like that )

Steel Challenge is certainly complimentary to that idea. Different, but complimentary.

USPSA embraces DVC.

In SC, speed and accuracy are most certainly tested. With SC, the accuracy requirement is greater in some instances (we can compare the area of square inches available on an acceptable hit). The speed is tested to the utmost.

What about power? Well...hmmm. I am one that always teases about mousefart minor loads and such. The reality is...many feel that 38/9mm is representative of power. Our brothers in IDPA believe that, and we do too. If not, we wouldn't have Production division.

And, there may be no other shooting test that is more practical than slapping leather and getting off a fast hit from the draw. No other practical shooting game...anywhere...tests the draw as much as Steel Challenge. USPSA isn't even in second place in regards of testing this practical skill (NRA Action Pistol has more draws than USPSA...or IDPA).

Everything has its positives and negatives.