nipplehead Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 My club is at a cross roads..and we need to figure out what direction to take. Some of the the group are hard liners and do not want to adjust to accomodate more helpers and would rather fold our USPSA matches . Most of the new blood wants to shoot the match with the squad rather than possibly not shooting at all and just working the match. All the other clubs I shoot at have changed to the traveling RO method. What do your clubs do and what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 All of our front range clubs have not only traveling RO's, but multiple RO's per squad. If you're talking about a state match or some other large match then you run the risk of having different RO's allow different things..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herky Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 The only problem I see with traveling ROs is consistant presentation of the walk thru and possible problems if a squad does shoot the COF differently than the other squads. One club where I shoot takes the time to walk all the traveling ROs thru each stage before the match starts. Seems to keep the problems in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 our club squads up and we do a entire walk through of the stages then shoot. lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 All of our front range clubs have not only traveling RO's, but multiple RO's per squad. If you're talking about a state match or some other large match then you run the risk of having different RO's allow different things..... Ours does too. There is a margin for error when you have dif ROs, but at our level, it's not possible to have dedicated ROs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 The only problem I see with traveling ROs is consistant presentation of the walk thru and possible problems if a squad does shoot the COF differently than the other squads. One club where I shoot takes the time to walk all the traveling ROs thru each stage before the match starts. Seems to keep the problems in check. Should have added that before the start of shooting, the MD and every shooter (and therefore the RO's) does a walk through of every stage, covering the WSB and any questions that anyone has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 At our locals there are NO dedicated ROs....Whoever wants to run the clock does. Rules enforcement and COF interpretation cause problems regularly since most of those officiating havent ever seen the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 yep multiple RO's per squad and walk through for everyone at club level. Any questions that come up during the match not covered in walk through someone runs for the match director. I think it's better than a RO shoot one day everyone else another. Integrity questions can really come up that way even if unfounded. If the stages are well designed and not a bunch of mind game BS it would be pretty hard for two different rulings on procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 We have multiple RO's on each squad. We all take turns running the clock, score sheet, etc. We don't have the luxury of dedicated RO's for each stage. Most of our clubs have ranges that other shooting sports use as well. Set up is usually the day of the match along with teardown. One club in the area sets up the night before. Other clubs may do things differently, each situation is different...I would go to a match just for the sake of a match, not just because they have dedicated RO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Ideally you have dedicated ROs AND the RO reads the stage description verbatim, the same to any squad. One humorous example was at the North American Championship several years ago. The CRO made it a point to read the written stage briefing from the original printed paper even though it had fallen into the mud and was barely legible. I think roving ROs (the RO stays with his squad, either shooting with it or not) are necessary to keep volunteer help coming to local matches. In that case, take extra care to read each stage briefing exactly as written. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 RO's around here are just RO certified members of the squad. If a squad doesn't have an RO the MD will put one on that squad. Club matches are just that, club matches. People that get all wadded up when it isn't run like a major are out of line in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 Here in SoCal we are a bit loose on the organization. (some will say lots!) The squads self-RO at the 4 clubs that I shoot at. In fact, only one of the clubs has a shooters meeting. The other three is pay your fee, get your score sheets and squads form and drift to the stages. I am not saying that is best, it just is. One club has shooter meetings and forms squads and does walk throughs. The self-ROing leads to some unbalanced rule interpretation but usually there are a few (to many) experienced guys on the squads so the rule interpretation is not too bad. (<SoapBox> There is the occasional cheating but we all know that and the guys who do it are pretty much considered infantile for doing it and are held in great disrespect among the masses. </SoapBox> ) But, the three loose clubs have dedicated setup people so you come, pay your fee, and shoot the match. I really doubt we could find people who would want to RO stages every Saturday and 2 Sundays a month year-round . We need to support at least 8-10 matches a month so I would think we would run out of folks to do it rather quickly. In short, the only time you see dedicated ROs here is at a > level 1 match. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 RO's around here are just RO certified members of the squad. If a squad doesn't have an RO the MD will put one on that squad. Club matches are just that, club matches. People that get all wadded up when it isn't run like a major are out of line in my opinion. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 28, 2007 Share Posted November 28, 2007 We build 7 stages in the morning. RO's are embedded, but we are looking at some tightening of just who is actually an RO. We are looking to have certified ROs, preferably more than one, per squad. We used to read the WSBs to the entire group, no one really remembers after the first stage. Wonehat we now do is stress the reading of the WSB by the RO and if there are questions, that they should come and get one of the MDs. Dedicated ROs would be great, but no one wants to miss shooting the match to work and building a day early is out. Most of us have lives other than shooting. Take all the help you can get, Embed your ROs, hold classes, team up sage builder/designer teams. The more the work is spread, the more people you will have available to help and the less each person has to do. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Jim makes great points. If you are in short supply of good RO's...then schedule an RO class through NROI. !!! Design stages well and there are fewer issues. Have well written stage briefings and there are fewer issues. Get as many people involved as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 RO's around here are just RO certified members of the squad. If a squad doesn't have an RO the MD will put one on that squad. Club matches are just that, club matches. People that get all wadded up when it isn't run like a major are out of line in my opinion. My opinion too. We run 6 stages in our monthly match with multiple embedded RO's. Most of the matches in our area use the same embedded RO format. Some are certified RO's, others may/may not be certified, but have been USPSA shooters for many years and do a really good job as RO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) RO's around here are just RO certified members of the squad. If a squad doesn't have an RO the MD will put one on that squad. Club matches are just that, club matches. People that get all wadded up when it isn't run like a major are out of line in my opinion. You got that right Howard. If they cant get along for 3-4hrs at a local match, when can they? Also, I run the local match at our club, We setup 7 stages the day before. 1 stage is the classifier and we always have a stage that involves the plate rack in some form, with a few targets to the side. All the other stages are set up as medium or large field courses with no directions other than start position and gun ready level. So basically it is shoot them as you see them and stay within the fault lines. My club also has some concrete walls that get involved in the stage design and as part of the walk thru the shooters are notified that shooting the concrete gets them a go home early award. It has never been and issue as the targets are always arranged so that the wall are not in the field of fire. We have always had RO's travel with the squad and seldom have issues with shooters not following course description as the courses themselves are very lienient as to the requirements. Dont break the 180, AD within 3ft or while loading unloading and all is typically good. Edited November 29, 2007 by scirocco38s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 The rule book provides for what is required at various match levels, in US Appendix A1 (2004). (NROI officials at every stage are not required for Level I matches. It is mandatory to run the match by the rulebook at all levels.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace38super Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I shoot at 5 clubs here in Minnesota and the only match that runs with dedicated ROs at each stage is the annual Section match. The ROs shoot a day early for that match and just RO for the match day. If clubs encourage basic RO certification for their members you get plenty of ROs for each squad and more educated shooters in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I've got to shoot the SC Sectional to find dedicated ROs. When the staff shoots the match we rotate ROs just like local matches. Usually we are lucky if 2 of us will step up, but sometimes 5 or more are willing on a good squad of experienced shooters. Locally we all get together for the walkthrough, then get to the shooting. It's pretty easy to spot a questionable situation, so at that point we ask the MD. I can't imagine a local match surviving with dedicated ROs, as I can't see how they'd get to shoot the match. The idea of having dedicated ROs is totally unreasonable at the local level IMHO. Good luck with your club, it sounds like you have a few asshats to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 RO's around here are just RO certified members of the squad. If a squad doesn't have an RO the MD will put one on that squad. Club matches are just that, club matches. People that get all wadded up when it isn't run like a major are out of line in my opinion. You got that right Howard. If they cant get along for 3-4hrs at a local match, when can they? Also, I run the local match at our club, We setup 7 stages the day before. 1 stage is the classifier and we always have a stage that involves the plate rack in some form, with a few targets to the side. All the other stages are set up as medium or large field courses with no directions other than start position and gun ready level. So basically it is shoot them as you see them and stay within the fault lines. My club also has some concrete walls that get involved in the stage design and as part of the walk thru the shooters are notified that shooting the concrete gets them a go home early award. It has never been and issue as the targets are always arranged so that the wall are not in the field of fire. We have always had RO's travel with the squad and seldom have issues with shooters not following course description as the courses themselves are very lienient as to the requirements. Dont break the 180, AD within 3ft or while loading unloading and all is typically good. Pretty much sums up our club. Works for us and everyone has a good time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I can't imagine a local match surviving with dedicated ROs, as I can't see how they'd get to shoot the match. The idea of having dedicated ROs is totally unreasonable at the local level IMHO.Good luck with your club, it sounds like you have a few asshats to deal with. IMHO - Right on the money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 It is mandatory to run the match by the rulebook at all levels.) Man, you oughta just put that in your sig line so you never have to type it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipplehead Posted November 29, 2007 Author Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) Thanks guys I am in the facton that believes to make this work the ROs travel. All of our current ROs are certified.. about a dozen. Two new guys just got certified last week but will not help if they cannot shoot. I believe we need to do our best to accommodate anyone one who is willing to help...especially in setup as there is always ROs outside our club at the matches and they do not mind helping. I believe we should utilize these resources and quite pounding sand up our asses for a level 1 match. Anyone who has been involved in running matches knows how much work is nessesary. Please keep these comments and observations coming as we are due to meet soon to see if we are going to pact it in or run next year....quiting is not an option to me. Edited November 29, 2007 by nipplehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I can't even believe there are people out there willing to shut down a match over this issue Do you think the asshats (I think that's the correct technical term) number more than a tiny minority? It scares me that more than 2 people in my state may think like this. I may be really deluded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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