grandbagger Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 saw a shooter trip forward and fell on the ground, the gun fires in a safe direction downrange does this qualify as a match DQ? RO never said anything and shooter finished COF, this was a club match if that helps. yeah i know safety is paramount..... how do we deal with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 DQ and then congratulations for maintaining a safe direction of muzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) saw a shooter trip forward and fell on the ground, the gun fires in a safe direction downrange does this qualify as a match DQ? RO never said anything and shooter finished COF, this was a club match if that helps. yeah i know safety is paramount..... how do we deal with this? DQ Ya beat me Merlin... you're a fast little monkey. Edited November 1, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b.s._nm Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 DQ and then congratulations for maintaining a safe direction of muzzle. +1 It was an unintended shot not directed at a target in the COF.. AD. Be safe. Keep the right side UP!!! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Instant DQ. I've been there + some and managed to keep my finger off the trigger and muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Every time I've let one go unintentionally (3 DQ's during reloads) it was a negligent discharge because I neglected to keep my finger off the trigger. No accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 DQ and then congratulations for maintaining a safe direction of muzzle. ++1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 This isn't hard to call. He had an accidental discharge during movement from one shooting position to another. DQ Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) 10.4.6 A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets. The last two pistol matches I've attended I've seen multiple DQ'able offenses... as a bystander. At a recent match there was a string of shooters who appeared to break the 180. The peanut gallery was saying "OOOOOO" and "uuuugggghhh". Collectively we knew that the shooters had broken the 180. ... and yet all we did was bitch and look on. In another match a new shooter clearly broke the 180 while going to his left and reloading. The RO was behind him and couldn't see. The peanut gallery saw it and was again vocally ooooing and uuging. The RO was told of the offense but didn't issue the DQ because again he did not personally see it. The RO counseled the new shooter... but no DQ. As a bystander I don't think you can really do anything. It's the RO's responsibility and sole authority to DQ the shooter. Or am I wrong? Edited November 1, 2007 by Religious Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 As a bystander I don't think you can really do anything. It's the RO's responsibility and sole authority to DQ the shooter.Or am I wrong? Nope. You aren't wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 That's one of the reasons that larger matches, like state and up, usually have two or more RO's per stage. Guy or gal on the timer can't see everything, the other RO watches for foot faults and such. It's nice to have scoring done as the shooter moves through the stage by the second RO, but sometimes things are missed due to only one set of eyeballs. JMHO dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 DQ and then congratulations for maintaining a safe direction of muzzle. Merlin has the perfect call!! But, when I saw this thread title, I thought this was going to be a Viagra thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandbagger Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 only you would think of something like that Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I think a dq is right also, but I'm amazed at how many of my local shooters would argue that it went in a safe direction and be allowed to keep on shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I think a dq is right also, but I'm amazed at how many of my local shooters would argue that it went in a safe direction and be allowed to keep on shooting. No argument. Here's the rule that says so: 10.4.6 A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 You would be surprised what goes on at local matches. I was at a club once where a newer, but not new, shooter went around the left side of a wall and in the process did a reload. He swept my 2 sons and one girlfriend watching and me. I got angrier the more I thought about. We are talking a fast graduation over seconds here. I had just assured the girlfriends family it was safe and I thought just what if. I was also the KY section Coordinator at the time. I got ahold of the RO and asked him why he didnt stop him and DQ him. Now I hate DQ's but this was necessary as it was a hazard. The RO told me he didnt DQ him because he didnt have his finger in the trigger guard so no harm. I lost it. I explained to him and the shooter how close we were to having a dead kid laying over there and they both failed miserably in their responsibility. One the RO to control and issue punishment and mostly the shooter for not being aware of where the muzzle was pointing. I walked away and then went back and repeated myself. I didnt care who I offended as long as they got the message that it was not acceptable under any circumstances. Now in a situation where the competitor is falling it is his obligation to do whatever it takes to keep the gun pointed in a safe direction, keep his finger in out of the trigger guard and attempt to apply the safety even when it means sacrificing his own body. DQ, and you dont here me say that very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Yep DQ! But..... "saw a shooter trip forward and fell on the ground, the gun fires in a safe direction downrange does this qualify as a match DQ? RO never said anything and shooter finished COF, this was a club match if that helps. yeah i know safety is paramount..... how do we deal with this? " What if the negligent round fired actually hit a target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Yep DQ! But....."saw a shooter trip forward and fell on the ground, the gun fires in a safe direction downrange does this qualify as a match DQ? RO never said anything and shooter finished COF, this was a club match if that helps. yeah i know safety is paramount..... how do we deal with this? " What if the negligent round fired actually hit a target? Well, if he made it look good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandbagger Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 What if the negligent round fired actually hit a target? my next question exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 How do you know if it did or not? You should be watching the gun. I've seen shooters argue that it did not strike at their feet(what ever the rule distance is) and it did not go over the berm, so what was unsafe? Not saying I agree with them, but I've seen DQ's overturned on that argument. Yes, at big matches as well as local ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 THE ANSWER to this situation is: UNSAFE GUN HANDLING, Never call an AD, an AD can be argued, I was engaging the target, I was point shooting, The round didn't go over the berm. However, Unsafe Gunhandling ends the discussion. No arbitration since unsafe IS unsafe and the safety aspect is not arguable. My opinion. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 The RO is watching the gun.... and calls the DQ. The assistant RO pulls the RO to the side and says the ND round hit the target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I agree with Jim (I think, even though that thought hurts) that "Unsafe Gun Handling" would fix it... but what a crappy call to have to defend. But since it is not even arbitration material at that point I guess it only becomes dinner talk.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Unsafe gun handling: Moving with finger in the trigger while not engaging targets. I know some will argue that they were engaging the target but common sense would be is that a spot from where the target could be engaged and from that angle did the round leave the range? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 The RO is watching the gun.... and calls the DQ. The assistant RO pulls the RO to the side and says the ND round hit the target? That's when you look at the shooter's face. If he looks like he just had an "Oh Shit!" moment, it's a bus ticket and a pat on the back for keeping it downrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvc40jim Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 The RO is watching the gun.... and calls the DQ. The assistant RO pulls the RO to the side and says the ND round hit the target? That's when you look at the shooter's face. If he looks like he just had an "Oh Shit!" moment, it's a bus ticket and a pat on the back for keeping it downrange. Here, Here for the Stoic expression or the look that says "What; You can't do that"! Seriously... I think it is another one of those rules that we must enforce without regard... UNSAFE is simply UNSAFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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