dvc40jim

So I have a customer gun about to give me fits. Rock Island Commander length gun. Brings it in the shop with a stuck fired case. Get that out check the chamber and it's just horrible machining fix that and the problem is less frequent but still happening. Check the extractor, clean it up radius it and get it nice polished up. Cleaned up lots more of the sloppy work in and around the lugs got a better recoil spring in it (it was about an 8 lb spring) now it a 14 and the right length. Ran several rounds thru it and it was fine but now it's back in the customer hands and after 1 mag another failure to extract. Any have one, any issues.... what am I missing. I haven't put hands on it yet since it hiccup'd again but I'm thinking that the lug area is the culprit, poorly fitted or softer than should be and they are getting beat up (slide side of things).

Some of the issues/concerns listed above are why we have always tried to talk directly to our grip customers. We wanted to get a feel for what someone was actually looking for and what they needed in a grip. We didn't start out with the painted version, we started our to produce the best grip surface on the market and to make sure it did what we want it to do and 15 years later we are still improving on that original idea. There are several companies who have copied our work over the years, didn't understand what they were doing and they folded up and went away (one even copied our website and called it his own) Others tried to set themselves apart (after copying our work) by doing more extreme paint patterns, and that is okay.... afterall imitation is the greatest form of flattery. What none of them are doing, is the research and developement based around what makes a better grip surface. When the Navy asked for a solution to skate board tape sliding around and coming loose.... we spent 2 years building the SOCD grip and warranty if for life! We have have customers that we have to work the textured surface around scar tissue and others where we have to be able to grip despite missing digits. We aren't about the paint job! We are about the grip, and what we know it can do to improve ones shooting. If you want a pretty grip we can recommend several companies... if you want a custom grip to meet your demands we can help. If you want to buy a copy of our work with no understanding of what went into it.... we can send you to several places..... if you want to get a grip that will help make you a better shooter, one you can stake your life on.... one that won't fail you downrange, in the mud, saltwater, blood or worse, then we can help you.

If you have a magwell on the Glock check it, I've seen magwells cause it on both Glocks and STI/SV's.

Where did you get that idea? Directly from Bill Wilson @ SHOT several years ago. He told me that it provided an unfair advantage to the shooter who installed one and would prompt everyone to be forced to run one if they wanted to remain competative and that went against the grain of the sport. It didn't matter to him that in my experience it increased realiability, softened felt recoil and made the gun more manageble in long strings of fire (all good traits in my opinion). I have not gone back and addressed the issue since then and it was likely 7 or 8 years ago but I got it straight from the source at the time.

Another vote for FrogLube. I'm running it on everything from long range guns to my carry gun. Easy to work with and by far the best I've seen or worked with on an AR platform, even after hundreds of rounds clean up is easy.

Yes. A friend of mine was looking, we've pretty much decided that it's not worth the effort. There isn't a lot of information on this Turkish built gun and the owner of the company is not inclinced to get any out there for T&E

value of use for 3 gun

Anybody heard of them? Worth anything?

When I was shooting for Springco (not legal in IDPA) I had a lot of good results working with commander length springs in full size guns. I would typically start with the factory rate spring weight for a given caliber and then start to work down. You really need to find a balance of spring that doesn't provide to much resistance as the slide wants to come out of battery (transmits to felt recoil) and you don't want a great deal of captured energy as the slide goes all the way back into battery (excessive muzzle dip as previously noted). Everyone feels and perceives recoil differently, so in my experience there is not a mathmatical formula for the solution, little bit of trail and error creates a good starting point. The commander length spring is still under pressure in a full size gun and offered a much better solution than when I was trimming coils off to get the desired result, and they are as cheap as any other spring.

You actually have a few options. I don't know who did the original grip work and that will make a big difference. Once the grip has been stippled it's very hard to get a measurement for places that could cause problems because they have been thinned too much but it's not impossible. There are several guys who have done the DIY thing with good results and they spent a great deal of time doing it, far more have screwed up enough they had to get a new grip. I'd be more than happy to talk with you and see what you need in a grip. No one has been working 2011 grips longer than us and with the proven track record we have established.

Don't know where your located in Mid Mo but there are several great clubs and matches to shoot just about every weekend depending on how far you want to drive. COPS near Rolla have both steel and USPSA events monthly. I host several classes each month and often use the COPS facility for those as well. Need anything as you start to take it serious don't hesitate to ask.

I really can only estimate how may thousands of rounds I have put over Sprinco guidrods, but I have never had one break on me. Not that they couldn't break just like any other part but... The last time the Limited Nationals were in PA, I did have one come unscrewed and the rod stuck in a target (D hit) but the gun ran for the rest of the stage without a hiccup. When we were taping targets we found it, I put it back in and that was that. In some guns I would get an impulse that felt like the gun was recoiling twice, or that pogo-stick like feel, I could always temper that by tweaking recoil spring rates. In lots of cases it was a lot of playing around to get what to me seemed like a faster recoil impulse, now I run them in everything to save on frame wear.

I shot for Sprinco for several years. I don't own a gun that Sprinco makes a guiderod for that I don't have one installed.... several of them long after I no longer shot for them and had to buy them. Like any machine, guns have potential differences from one to the other, but with properly fitted parts I have never seen wearing out of parts, a part breakage due to the Sprinco guiderod or a loss of accuracy. Granted, I can only account for roughly 400,000 rounds or so fired over them. I spent lots of hours working with varying spring rates and lengths on lots of platforms, and I spent a lot of time tuning springs for the guns we fitted them in at lots of USPSA venues over the years. Without a doubt, tuned properly you can change the way you perceive recoil in any firearm with a Sprinco, it really involves only simple physics. Naturally each load, each caliber and many other variables come into play but in my humble opinion it's worth tuning and tweaking to get it just right. The craziest I got with it was a 5lb commander length spring but I only ran that for about 20 thousand rounds. After about 120,000 rounds I had a new slide and barrel fitted and the frame is still fine. I guess in the true sense of the word, the guiderod is a "gimmick". But then again, so are fiber optic sights, magwells and extended basepads. To me the warranty that Sprinco offers pretty much says it all.... 2 months to try it out no risk and a lifetime breakage warrenty.

I teach both work and competition related firearms skills and encourage an aggressive support foot forward stance, knees bent, upper body forward position for everything. I encourage shooters to not change their body position when switching from a freestyle, strong or support grip. Statistically we shoot freestyle moreover anything else so the aggressive stance we use has been developed over time and we are used to it. Changing a position that is otherwise solid when you switch to a strong or weak hand only requirment translates to time on the clock that could be detrimental to an overall time that has an impact practically and tactically. I keep my body and feet position the same no matter the grip requirement whenever possible. Slightly canting the gun like has been suggested serves to put a little more muscle and mass above the gun to offset the natural open part of the grip when supported with only one hand, it is not the end all be all for everyone but it is an acceptable practice. Grip strength exercises also help to offset the effects we suffer with a one hand grip. I also try and focus more on the accuracy part of shooting one hand then I do on the recoil control part of shooting one hand if that makes sense. More important to me what happens before the shot then what happens after the shot. Of course a perfect support hand shot is worth nothing if the gun flies out of your hand and you don't get to have a second shot... so they do work hand in hand.

The pictured grip is ours, lots of copies out there but that has the tell tale work. If you can't reach me posting a note on this forum, our email is on the website, as well other contact options www.advancedperformanceshooting.com jim.shanahan@us.army.mil

Your overall cost depends on what all options you choose, complete reduction and undercuts or with/without beavertail and so on. All of our prices are listed on the website and adding paint is typically only an addtional $20. It's not uncommon for guys to work their own and when they do they don't mind showing them off... they should be proud. However there are far more "homemade" jobs sitting on the back of a bench somewhere then are being showed off. In some instances they can be fixed with patience and work but lots of time they become little more than paper weights. We are just a phone call away if you choose our service or if you need advice on other options.

Not sure if another response is merited or not. We've been doing this on customer guns since 98. It's possible to do it yourself (afterall that is how we started). However it's a risky business... not so much wiht an M&P as with a Glock but still a chance you take. Why... You ask? Then you haven't do enough of then m to know the answer. No is currently doing STI grips that aren't directly copying the work we started and then same holds true for many other polymer framed guns. We didn't start the Glock work, but we do it for less and with more attention to detail. The same holds true for the M&P line of pistols. We didn't start the work... but we made it better, for less and with more attention to detail.

You can find a lot of information about DIY and I can always help if you want to have it professionally done. If you try it yourself and it doesn't turn out the way you wanted we might still be able to salvage it.

Registration for the COPS stuff runs between 0800 and 0900 (be flexible) and the shooters meeting is right at or just after 0900. Everyone will squad up and go shoot and lunch is cooked on the range as well. Most of the time you can be done by noon or right after. 5 or 6 stages is the norm. If you have any trouble finding the range, or need directions just give me a call. 347 693 8661 Jim

Cool, Thanks. We have to demonstrate a majority of our live fire drills in Basic SWAT course, just the way the Army likes to do things, and most of us believe we should and believe it serves a good purpose, but it's always good to here the justification for things not done like we elect to do them.

As the majority of our Instructors (day job) are also NRA Instructors what reference can we look at that says we are not allowed to demo live fire? None of us have heard that, or experienced an outright denial... but likewise none of us have seen a NRA class where the Instructor actually demo'd.

Count us in as a sponsor again. I will bring at least the same crew but I will try and add a couple others. Let me know what else we can do to help.

"Double Undercuts" is the term we have used for part of our reduction/enhancement work we have been doing on STI/SV and Glock for the past 10 years.... two cuts under the trigger guard instead of just the one, since then virtually anyone doing grip work has copied us. I'm saddened that you haven't been to our website in all of that time, but I'm not trying to hijack the OP's thread, his team is looking for help and we already work with several Police Departments and Tactical Teams trying to make the Glock a little better.

How "special" would they like them to be? Double undercuts, magwell, no BS texture that won't slip? The sky is the limit.