Newbie has bad 1st experience at a USPSA match

[BSeevers]

1. There are some A-holes running matches anywhere in the US

2. There are some A-holes complaining about IPSC every since I been in it.

3. Every once in a while these people meet each other or us.

4. The internet can sometime make a weak man brave.

5. Volunteers need better pay and make mistakes.

[John Baier]

1. There are some A-holes running matches anywhere in the US

2. There are some A-holes complaining about IPSC every since I been in it.

3. Every once in a while these people meet each other or us.

4. The internet can sometime make a weak man brave.

5. Volunteers need better pay and make mistakes.

Amen to that, brother

[mjbine]

All I can say is that the people on this forum ARE THE SH!T. I read the posts on the other forum and they were right on the mark. There are not many places that people would go out of their way to make someone feel welcome. I am proud to be a part of this forum and love to read stuff that helps USPSA in any way. Great Job To ALL that Posted and brought this subject to light.

[No.343]

I was an avid IHMSA shooter for several years. The IHMSA guys that I shot with did not "poison the well" towards other shooting disciplines. One day I went to the range to practice and an IPSC match was in progress. I honestly felt like no one was interested in telling me about their sport. I got curious, though. For three or four years I would shoot one IPSC match at a different club during the IHMSA off season. The other club is now my home club and has some truly wonderful people in it. Captains are kinda strange anyway.

[JThompson]

As a new USPSA member and IPSC shooter I felt it by duty to go over and post as well. I have had all the help I wanted to start in this sport. Sometimes more than I wanted, but who can fault that? As I said in another post... you people are the salt of the earth and I PROUD to be in this sport with you!

Jim

[XRe]

Holy crap, guys, go get 'em!!!

[FranDoc]

Although I'm fairly certain that this incident didn't occur in our gravel pit, the post DID make me think about what we'd do IF somebody showed up with a shoulder holster, 'non-standard' rig, etc.

Give me a few days and we'll have a formal framework and contingency plan -- swap out loaner gear, extra ammo, a quiet intro chat off to the side with one of the RO's, etc.

FWIW -- my experience with the USPSA guys has been MUCH more inviting, welcoming, and 'y'all c'mon down & shoot!' than most any other firearms-related venue I've attended (though CWO Miller's machine gun shoots @ Fort Harmar are real close). I'm new to the run-&-gun (USPSA) this year, and hope to stick around for a while.

Sorry this guy had a bad experience. I can't imagine anyone in O-H-I-O who wouldn't welcome the chance to make his second visit to a USPSA match a much better time.

Saw the posts on the other list. Good job by the BE'ers.

[big_kahuna]

I checked that thread on AmBack last night... the allegations were simply unbelievable. I'm wondering what really happened to Warpusher, but will probably never know the complete story. I do know how new shooters are treated at my local matches (and here in the Benosverse)... and Warpusher's account is 180 degrees out from how we do it. I've seen more "pay it forward" in USPSA than anywhere else in my life.

Signed up for their forum and posted my two pennies before I hit the sack. Looking forward to his responses. Hopefully he checks this forum also... to see some other perspectives.

[chp5]

Some of our local clubs have new shooter squads. This is a good idea.

We should realize that going to your first USPSA match (which we've all done) is intimidating. It's very easy for some people to get their back up when they are intimidated.

New shooters should understand that it's important to leave your ego at home and just learn. When I went to my first USPSA match, I thought I was already a pretty good shooter. I quickly learned otherwise! That realization challenged me.

But some people have a tough time accepting that their skills - when compared to accomplished USPSA shooters - are pretty weak. Instead of accepting it and learning and improving - they blame the sport and the shooters. They become "player haters" in order to protect their fragile egos.

You can see examples of this all over the internet. I'm not saying this is the case in the linked forum, I'm just saying it's real.

It actually takes guts to go compete and get your ass kicked. It's easier to quit and make excuses.

[lcs]

I just registered and sent the guy a message. Hopefully we can salvage this one.

If he responds and is close to Wright-Patterson AFB, I will be more than happy to talk to him (I'm retired military). We did have a new guy show up with a shoulder holster a month or so back at a Sunday match and the match was full quite full. IF it was him, I think it was just a BIG misunderstanding and I would be glad to try to change his attitude and provide all the help he needs. I am positive not one of our regular shooters would make fun of his gun or make BS comments like he indicated. We have many LE and active duty military shooting at our club.

PM if he responds.

[AzShooter]

When having a problem like that the best thing to do is find the Match Director and tell them what has happened to you. It is their job to make you feel comforatble and to explain the rules.

Our club puts on a 1/2 hour class before the Thursday matches for all new shooters, (mandatory) so they know the rules and expectations.

You probably me some gun snobs that look down on the fine Berretta. It works fine and that's the most important thing. You could shoot stock instead of prodution BTW.

And I'm one of those really crazy guys. I shoot a revolver and love when I beat most of the auto shooters.

[zhunter]

I read the other forum's thread, you guys did an outstanding job, hats off to all of you!!!

I too am proud to be associated with this group!!!

[mda]

Now for the other side of the story.

This must be the guy showed at our Club match , MBSC in Dayton Oh, about 2 months ago. I do not recall anyone making fun of him due to the pistol he was using or whatever accusations he has leveled.

I was acting match director, as Paul was out of town working some area match, and several regular shooters notified me that there was a guy with a shoulder holster. I went and found the person and told him (nicely) that per USPSA rules he could not use a shoulder holster. He then got all defensive stating; "I read the rules on the internet last night and it states that I can use my duty holster since I am military." I said "Yes, you can use a duty rig, but, USPSA rules specifically prohibit use of shoulder holsters for safety reasons." His response, "You mean that even through I used this while “in country” you do not consider this a duty rig." Again, I responded with "That is not the issue with not allowing you to use a shoulder holster and restated the rules." Several times during this conversation, I offered to round up a Holster for him, which I did when all was said and done.

As for the Production Gun issue, I told him that USPSA rules limit round count in production division to 10 rounds, and that if you wanted to load 15 in his mags he would have to shoot in the limited division. Again, I was nice and explained the rules. I never said that an M9 was junk or said that it was not a production Gun. Heck, we have several regulars that use M9's.

I think that he was on a squad with Bobert, Fullrace, Robert and Mike. As their posts indicate, the description of his experience is now how we treat new shooters.

To close, it is sad that this person had a bad experience at our match. That said, on my first contact with this person, he seemed the have a “Chip on his shoulder” with a very negative attitude and in general was confrontational about the whole thing. I found him a holster he could use for the match, even tied to get him to use mag pouches but he declined. All while I explained the rules as they pertained to the situation.

Mark

[mscott]

Thanks for "the rest of the story". I haven't received a reply from the message I sent this guy yet, but I'm real glad to hear one of our clubs didn't actually screw this guy over. It also sucks that he might be spreading a bad word about our sport. I don't care what shooting sport it is, we all need to stick together on this sort of stuff.

[GentlemanJim]

I suspected This story was too one sided.

That would explain the lack of responce to our posts on that forum.

The good side of this is that we have shown (on thier forum) what kind of folks we realy are....Im sure MANY will read and see!!

Thanks for the other side!!!!

Jim

[EricW]

I was pretty certain that it was one sided, but unfortunately, perception is "reality." Let's hope that the peace offerings change the tune of anyone who was tainted by the negativity.

[vluc]

Thanks for the rest of the story. Always three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth.

Now we need the rest for the one over at the USPSA forums.

[Big Bore]

From the post I have read it seems that this person did have a chip on his shoulder. But I would like to add my first experience shooting ISPC about 14 years ago in Montana. My first shoot was with a friends Dad who made sure I had the right type of holster (lent me one). we shot out of a old Checker cab in a gravel pit, what a blast. I was hooked.

So later on myself and 2 buddies went over to the closest club, 120 miles away. Not as fun. That bunch was pretty stand off-ish and had a pretty good clique going. We were not part of that clique. We did not feel welcome at all. We keep coming back just to piss them off. (Pretty standard behavior for 3 exmilitary going to school in one of the roughest mining towns in Montana) So we continued to receive the cold shoulder and were routinely the squad where all of the RO's shot thru on. We had to tape and pick up their brass. The last straw was when I talked my then girl friend now wife to shoot with us, my friend's girl shot with us also. Did not go well. She got all nervous and worked up and when I tried to get her to relax by talking to her I was threatened by the RO's to shut up or get DQ'd. You would have thought we were at the nationals and not a local monthly match. That was the first and last match she has ever shot.

I continued shooting at other more friendly clubs around the state until I moved to Utah.

I will admit Utah has a great bunch of shooters always friendly and willing to help the new guy.

Thought I would share my first experience..............

Edited September 19, 2007 by Big Bore

[Neomet]

As a relative noob myself I can say that my first trip to the local IPSC match was nothing but great. People were friendly, made sure I shot last in my squad so I could watch the more experienced shooters go through, The RO went through the range commands with me before the first stage to be sure I undersood each of them and everyone just generally went out of their way to make sure I came back. Since that time I have brought the lovely Ms. Neomet and she continues to remark on how nice and accomodating everyone was to her.

From his list of complaints it appears that his ire is more directed at the enforcement of the stated rules by which we all play. No shoulder holsters, 15 rounds puts you into Limited, etc. The rules, particullarly those regarding safety, are there for a reason. Nothing wrong with not knowing them but you should be willing to be told what is and is not accepted.

Nice responses on the other site guys.

[JFD]

I've been waiting for the "other side of the story" which I knew had to exist. In my experience, bad treatment is usually the direct result of being an asshat.

Claiming bad treatment is also a good cover for those who show up and find out they aren't nearly as skilled as they thought they were, and I'm guessing this guy falls into that category.

[Paul Burtchell]

I can see both sides of this story, but damn you've got to take some personal responsibility. I've only been shooting IDPA and USPSA for a few months, but before my first match I spent literally hours researching on the internet, joined the USPSA and IDPA, tried to memorize the rules and generally wanted to be competitive before I "stepped into the ring" for the first time. Maybe it's just my OCD.

[JThompson]

We should remember that that thread has a link back to this one... let's not undo all the good we have done by slinging mud/ name calling here.

JT

Edited September 19, 2007 by JThompson

[Paul Burtchell]

Please excuse my "lack of "computer skills. I did not mean to post twice.

Edited September 19, 2007 by baerburtchell

[mjbine]

We should remember that that thread has a link back to this one... let's not undo all the good we have done by slinging mud/ name calling here.

JT

JT, you are on the mark. Good Job!

[Matt Griffin]

Just an anecdote, but I remember watching Dave Sevigny (several-time national champion, for those coming from the other site) happily explain every detail of USPSA shooting to an older couple at the Double Tap championship between stages. Try chatting up Tiger Woods during a PGA event on where you can drop the ball after landing in a hazard, and see how much information you get back.

H.