Revolver accuracy

[Flexmoney]

Are revolvers more accurate than autos?

[tightloop]

You cannot do a true test unless you pick one specific hole in the cylinder and fire all shots from that one only.  An auto loader only uses one, but it must be 6X as hard to drill and align all the holes in the cylinder of a revo to have the correct alignment, cylinder to barrel gap, minimal end shake and correct lockup than it is for an autoloader to get the barrel and bushing aligned .

In theory, they have the same accuracy potential, and inherently one is neither better nor worse than the other.  There you have it, chicken/egg, yin/yang, 1911/Plastic, ...you get the idea.

(Edited by tightloop at 10:26 pm on Dec. 10, 2002)

[Ron Ankeny]

Flexmoney:

Wow, what a way to start a new forum. Already stirring the pot, lol. Actually, you pose a darn good question.

I did a lot of testing in my old PPC days back in the late 70's and early 80's, but nothing current. I only shot a few autos out of a Ransom Rest, but I shot dozens of revolvers out of a Ransom Rest, mostly custom PPC revolvers. I have also tested several K and N frame revolvers as well as several Pythons and a couple of those old Python/Smith hybrids (very accurate btw).

The most accurate revolvers that I have tested were those made by Ron Power back when he did it himself in the late 1970's. Those revolvers were all capable of sub X-Ring groups (on a B-27) at 50 yards with various handloads from an old Star press. Some of them shot 1 1/2 inch groups with regularity with about anything I fed them. We tested a couple of PPC revolvers from Bill Davis, and a few from a local maker. They all shot very well. Of course, I shot one round from each hole.

I compared six rounds from one hole versus one round from each hole in a couple of Ron Power's guns. The difference wasn't worth mentioning and in some cases the group was even better using the entire cylinder full. I suppose that speaks to the quality of Power's work. Like tightloop, I would think an off the shelf wheel gun would shoot substantially better from one hole, but I don't have any hard data to back it up. In general terms, the most accurate production wheel guns were the Pythons.

The most accurate autos that I have ever tested were an old Clark Long Heavy Slide and a Swenson fitted Gold Cup. Neither of them shot as well as my favorite PPC revolver or my Power Custom 44 Special.

I hope Brian throws in his two cents worth because my experiences are really dated.

[Intel6]

I do a lot of load testing with my Ransom rest and while I understand that there are lots of other variables, it seems like the revolvers generally shoot better.  If you asked me the question I would say yes, based on my experience.

[banjobart]

I think that after one becomes accustomed to revolver shooting, the revolver will be more accurate than an auto loader when firing offhand.  This is because durting the entire long double action stroke, the revolver shooter is aiming and refining the aim.  Of course, the revolver shooting is a bit slower than semi auto rate of fire.

[spook]

Is an STI more accurate than a Glock? Is my Glock more accurate than yours?

There are so many variables involved, that you cannot say: "this kind of gun is more accurate than that kind of gun".

It depends roughly on:

- tolerances of the gun.

- ammo

But too many other variables are involved to answer this question with certainty.

[Patrick Sweeney]

Generally speaking (and we're covering a lot of ground here) an out of the box wheelgun will be more accurate than an out of the box auto.  However,

It depends on the box it comes out of.  A Charter Arms isn't going to beat a Nowlin.

It depends on ammo.  A pistol with factory match wadcutter ammo is probably going to beat a revolver with your cousin merl's reloads.

And it depends on what you mean by "accuracy."  Tight groups?  Consistency to the sights?  Fit to your hand, and consistency from shot to shot?

As for checking accuracy from a single charge hole, I've seen it matter once, and that was of all revos, an S&W DX .44 Magnum.  It shot a perfectly mediocre group of 5" at 50 yards.  (Ransom rest)  Each of the charge holes did sub one inch groups, but the six groups were spread over 5" of target.  I sent it back to S&W with the test targets, and received a new gun with the same serial number.  That one shot an inch at 50 yards.  Too bad it was a customers, or I'd have kept it for sure.

Since we shoot them in sixes and not singles, the valid test is a six shot group.

I might point out that even that bad S&W DX would keep all its shots in the A zone at 50 yards.  Let us not be distracted by incremental accuracy concerns.

[George D]

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Quote: from Patrick Sweeney on 1:00 am on Dec. 12, 2002

Generally speaking (and we're covering a lot of ground here) an out of the box wheelgun will be more accurate than an out of the box auto.  However, It depends on the box it comes out of.  A Charter Arms isn't going to beat a Nowlin.

.

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My experience is that an auto can be as accurate as a revolver but it costs a lot more, and this is what Patrick is saying (I think).

[bountyhunter]

"Are revolvers more accurate than autos?"

YES, dollar for dollar, and generally speaking.  You can get a new medium decent wheelgun (like a taurus) that will shoot sub two inch at 25 yards easily with a 4" barrel.  Most autos under $600 don't shoot that well out of the box.

The reason?  Build a gun where the barrel is bolted to the frame.  Then, build one where the barrel is loose in the slide which is loosely mounted to the frame (all patys move on every shot).  Considering the fact that an error in the position of a 5" barrel of ten thousandths (.010") will cause a shift of 1.8" at the target... which gun would you say is likely to be inherently more accurate?

[gm iprod]

banjobart,

don't tell JErry Miculek that revolvers are slower than auto's, he may disagree.

I once was told by John Pride that he wish he could go back to his revolver for Bianchi. They are easier to make accurate, and more reliable. Given the same quality of ammo. But he would drop the odd shot om the Mover and the Auto was easier o shoot the mover with. Just throw enough money at anything and a gunsmith will make it as accurate as you can afford.

PS I shot the 1999 NRA World Shoot with a std 686 revolver and came fourth in stock. The three in front of me all used S&W revolvers.

Now just about every one I know uses an Auto for this. There will always be exceptions, like Jerry M. Who beat you with pure skill.

[Edmond]

Wheelgun rules!

[Kingman]

It goes to comparison really

a wheelgun built for accuracy will run 1200 or so(bianchi cup gun) and will shoot great

The same 1911 built to shoot the same size group as the wheel gun for the cup will run well over 4k.

They may both shoot the same size group, but a lot more was expended to get there.

[spook]

Nice to see this thread brought up again.

I have always been able to shoot revolvers more accurately that auto's (generally speaking).

[Carmoney]

Nice to see this thread brought up again.

I have always been able to shoot revolvers more accurately that auto's (generally speaking).

Wow, back when this thread was active the first time, I was still on sabattical!

[RePete]

I believe that revolvers are inherently more accurate than the auto, and that was especially true years ago.

Autos are getting more accurate today, due to advances in CNC machining.

The race for accuracy between revolvers and autos is getting close.

[Bubber]

Me thinks it is the Indian. I shoot a Revo accuratly for what I shoot, USPSA, ICORE, and steel. Bullseye may be different. Autos should be easier to get the accuracy as there is a small amount of trigger travel and nothing to move with the trigger except a sear and hammer. But I shoot my revo better than I shoot an Auto.. go figure.

[HSMITH]

My most accurate revolver's and most accurate auto's of all time all shot about an inch at 50 yards. The revolvers have mostly been bone stock, the auto's I built myself. The only auto I have ever bought that would shoot under 3" at 50 yards was a Buckmark 22.

Without a scope mounted it doesn't make a lot of difference to me, I can't shoot small groups at 50 yards without magnification anymore.

[Carmoney]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the one to break the news to all you true believers......

A good 1911 .45 pistol can be built to shoot 1" to 1.5" groups out of a machine rest at 50 yards. You will never ever see that happen with a .45 revolver of any kind.

A good High Standard .22 pistol (out of the box) with match ammo will shoot similarly small groups at 50 yards. You will not ever see that happen with a .22 revolver of any kind.

A revolver may have a fixed barrel, but the damn chamber is disconnected from it. Now add in the fact that a revolver has six chambers (or whatever) that are all slightly different from each other, and in slightly different orientation to the barrel, and you'll understand why a wheelgun is never going to be the most accurate handgun design out there. This is why the "Target Model of 1955" and the K-22 fell out of vogue with the Bullseye crowd decades ago.

Now, obviously, revolvers can be plenty accurate for the stuff most of us here need them for.....

Edited October 21, 2007 by Carmoney

[Flexmoney]

OK...next question.

How come, from my unofficial observations, Revolver shooters tend to shoot more Alphas than the auto gun shooters?

[smokshwn]

Easy, cuz they are generally old and slow so there is plenty of time on the sights

Sorry Rog and Dick

[revchuck]

OK...next question.

How come, from my unofficial observations, Revolver shooters tend to shoot more Alphas than the auto gun shooters?

Because we have fewer rounds with which to make up bad shots. Assuming your perception is accurate - and I think it is, but I'm prejudiced - shooting a gun with a relatively long trigger pull requires one to pay attention to sight alignment over a longer period of time. I'm guessing it helps in the same way shooting an air pistol helps with follow-through.

[spook]

OK...next question.

How come, from my unofficial observations, Revolver shooters tend to shoot more Alphas than the auto gun shooters?

After one session of revolver shooting (steel, IPSC, IDPA or whatever time based shooting) you will aim better. Throw a miss and the whole game plan changes.

Good question. From now on, in training, I will load my Glock magazines with as many rounds as the array requires

[Flexmoney]

Great points made so far. Keep them coming. I know there has to be more...

----------------------------

From now on, in training, I will load my Glock magazines with as many rounds as the array requires

That is similar to a trick that Anderson used to really hit steel, back in the day. He didn't dowload the mags, but he treated the steel as if it was Virginia Count in his head.

[Bubber]

As Spook and revchuck alluded to. We have to slow down to speed up. Shoot smooth...Do everything else fast....where did I hear that before...? And shooting minor plays a part in my shooting A's. rdd

[mwx40x40]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to be the one to break the news to all you true believers......

A good 1911 .45 pistol can be built to shoot 1" to 1.5" groups out of a machine rest at 50 yards. You will never ever see that happen with a .45 revolver of any kind.

A good High Standard .22 pistol (out of the box) with match ammo will shoot similarly small groups at 50 yards. You will not ever see that happen with a .22 revolver of any kind.

A revolver may have a fixed barrel, but the damn chamber is disconnected from it. Now add in the fact that a revolver has six chambers (or whatever) that are all slightly different from each other, and in slightly different orientation to the barrel, and you'll understand why a wheelgun is never going to be the most accurate handgun design out there. This is why the "Target Model of 1955" and the K-22 fell out of vogue with the Bullseye crowd decades ago.

Now, obviously, revolvers can be plenty accurate for the stuff most of us here need them for.....

They may not be DA Revos, but in IHMSA Freedom Arms Revolvers rule, and for good reason. I have seen 353 FA's shoot under 3" at 100 yards. I have never seen a 1911 do that. The FA 22 we give any 22 auto a run for the money as well. But, for the most part I agree with Mr Carmoney.