Real World Experience With Polymer Wolf .223-anyone?

[StealthyBlagga]

Got home and pulled a bullet and it stuck to a magnet. So it wasn't the steel casing that had caused it to stick. There is steel (or something magnetic) in the bullet.

A lot of the Wolf ammo has projectiles they call "bimetal" - this word may even appear on the box. This means the bullet jacket is steel with a thin outer coating of copper (for corrosion resistance).

[Religious Shooter]

I took a look at the 20-round box. It doesn't have "bi-metal" anywhere on the box.

"55 GR. FMJ

STEEL CASE

NON-CORROSIVE BOXER PRIMED"

[TRUBL]

I just got back from the range and shot some of the Wolf 55grain hollow point .223 remington ammo. I shot this ammo off a bench rest with my JP CTR-02 with the aluminum bolt carrier. (I told John Paul, he disowned me and will never speak of my name again).

With the ammo that I am presently using, I can hold 3/4 MOA 10 shot groups on the bench. (thats 3/4" at 100yds)

The following is the pros and cons list I've come up with in my experience with Wolf Ammo.

Pros:

Packaged nice

Very clean ammo....in the box

I suspect the polymer coating will keep the steel cases from rusting

Atually quite nice looking ammo

Of the 80 rounds I fired, I had no failures....it went bang

POA did not change over the ammo I am presently using (YMMV)

Cons:

WOW.....this stuff is dirty!!!!

WOW.....this stuff smells!!!

As the steel cases do not expand to your chamber, excessive gas and other debris fly through out your rifle. I've never seen gas come out the back of my gun before, so this was a whole new experience for me. My nose got black.

At 50yds, my groups averaged almost 2" (3 - 10 shot groups) (thats about 4 MOA)

At 100yds, yes......they doubled, however I did get one 10 shot group to go 2"

Picking up the spent cases at the range was a filthy mess......now my hands got black.

Sooooo.....bottom line:

Would I use this stuff in a Multi gun match??? Maybe.....if everything was 100yds or less and not a lot of no shoots.

Would I use this stuff in a USPSA 3 gun match??? Probably not.

Would I use this stuff for practice??? Possibly

Suggestions if you do decide to use this stuff.

Carry a chamber brush (mop too!) and be prepared to clean your bolt carrier after each stage and re-oil if needed.

I did not chrono this stuff, but I suspect it may not be very consistant due the steel cases not expanding to the chamber. I also suspect that if wolf was to use brass cases, the acuracy might improve and the dirt factor will go down as well........BUT they don't so its a pipe dream.

It seems these results may be consistant with what other people are getting.......I just had to try it for myself.

Tim

Edited June 21, 2007 by TRUBL

[Religious Shooter]

I suspect the polymer coating will keep the steel cases from rusting

They will still rust. I have a box of the gray polymer coated Wolf that got wet during a training session. The rounds are rusted especially in the primer area.

A number of matches/venues won't allow bullets with steel in them. Check the projectiles before you bring them to said matches.

[Scout454]

I just got back from the range and shot some of the Wolf 55grain hollow point .223 remington ammo. I shot this ammo off a bench rest with my JP CTR-02 with the aluminum bolt carrier. (I told John Paul, he disowned me and will never speak of my name again).

With the ammo that I am presently using, I can hold 3/4 MOA 10 shot groups on the bench. (thats 3/4" at 100yds)

The following is the pros and cons list I've come up with in my experience with Wolf Ammo.

Pros:

Packaged nice

Very clean ammo....in the box

I suspect the polymer coating will keep the steel cases from rusting

Atually quite nice looking ammo

Of the 80 rounds I fired, I had no failures....it went bang

POA did not change over the ammo I am presently using (YMMV)

Cons:

WOW.....this stuff is dirty!!!!

WOW.....this stuff smells!!!

As the steel cases do not expand to your chamber, excessive gas and other debris fly through out your rifle. I've never seen gas come out the back of my gun before, so this was a whole new experience for me. My nose got black.

At 50yds, my groups averaged almost 2" (3 - 10 shot groups) (thats about 4 MOA)

At 100yds, yes......they doubled, however I did get one 10 shot group to go 2"

Picking up the spent cases at the range was a filthy mess......now my hands got black.

Sooooo.....bottom line:

Would I use this stuff in a Multi gun match??? Maybe.....if everything was 100yds or less and not a lot of no shoots.

Would I use this stuff in a USPSA 3 gun match??? Probably not.

Would I use this stuff for practice??? Possibly

Suggestions if you do decide to use this stuff.

Carry a chamber brush (mop too!) and be prepared to clean your bolt carrier after each stage and re-oil if needed.

I did not chrono this stuff, but I suspect it may not be very consistant due the steel cases not expanding to the chamber. I also suspect that if wolf was to use brass cases, the acuracy might improve and the dirt factor will go down as well........BUT they don't so its a pipe dream.

It seems these results may be consistant with what other people are getting.......I just had to try it for myself.

Tim

Tim,

I've chrono'd it twice - 10 shots, 300fps extreme spread. Second time, 10 shots 180fps extreme spread. This was out of an 18" JP barrel.

[jobob]

A number of matches/venues won't allow bullets with steel in them. Check the projectiles before you bring them to said matches.

I read on a forum somewhere that some recent lots of Wolf .223 have steel jackets. Probably due to the cost of copper these days. I don't know if this is a fact, but you're right that you should check your ammo. You really don't want to shoot steel targets with steel bullets. Unpleasant things can happen!

[DaG]

O.K. I'm a noob about this stuff, but I shot 60 rds. @ 200 yds on a MGM Flash target with the Wolf 55gr. FMJ and the group was probably 4 in. or less. I missed 3 times. Is this not considered good? The rifle is a factory RRA with a 16" bbl. TIA

DaG

[Religious Shooter]

Are you saying that your gun shoots a 4" group @ 200 with Wolf?

And you determined this by shooting an MGM flash target with 60 rounds?

4" at 200 yards is excellent. As long as the projectile doesn't have any steel you're all set.

[EricW]

I think our P.E. Kelley has played with steel jacketed 308 and there is a world of difference between steel *jacket* and steel *core* with regards to target damage. Steel jacket ammo seems to have little to no effect over copper jacket rounds. FWIW...

[Keith]

While ROing last weeks Tri-Gun I had to stop a shooter, who was shooting Wolf ammo, on his third shot for a squib. I heard what sounded exactly like a pistol squib and stopped him as he was reaching for the charge handle. We cracked open the rifle and saw that the barrel was not clear. It was taken over to the the DPMS factory where the projectile was pounded out but I do think that it was in there far enough to chamber a second round on top of it.

[DaG]

Are you saying that your gun shoots a 4" group @ 200 with Wolf?

And you determined this by shooting an MGM flash target with 60 rounds?

4" at 200 yards is excellent. As long as the projectile doesn't have any steel you're all set.

I take it that Wolf is not suppose to shoot this group @ 200 yds?

I'm not sure I follow you on the projectile not having any steel in it. Thanks for any help you can give me.

DaG

[GentlemanJim]

Steel jackets wont damage steel targets...steel cores will pock or punch holes in them and them puppies aint cheap.

Also some risk of projectiles coming back at you.

Jim

[Religious Shooter]

I take it that Wolf is not suppose to shoot this group @ 200 yds?

I'm not sure I follow you on the projectile not having any steel in it. Thanks for any help you can give me.

DaG

I would say that it's not common for Wolf to shoot a 4" group @ 200 yards. What I was puzzled about is it seemed like you came to the conclusion that you shot a 4" group @ 200 by shooting at a steel target with 60 rounds.

If the Wolf (or any round) shoots 4" at 200 yards with your rifle I think that is adequate performance for 3 gun. IMHO 2MOA is the line between "go" and "no go." But I would recommend that you use paper as proof positive of its performance.

As far as the steel comment... a lot of matches and ranges prohibit bullets that have steel in the projectile.

The test used is almost always done by touching the bullet's projectile to a magnet. Due to practical reasons they will (almost always) not go further and determine if the steel is only in the jacket or if it is in the core. So they are not 1) gonna pull the bullet and then 2) determine where the steel is by either a) cutting the bullet in half or peeling off the jacket from the core or by ???? If it sticks to a magnet you can't use it. Period.

So it's great that your gun performs well with Wolf. But what does that matter if you can't use it because the match/range prohibits its use?

So 1) check the performance of the load on paper and 2) pull your bullets and see if you are lucky enough to have Wolf that has steel free projectiles.

If Wolf shoots 2 MOA (4"@200 yards) and there is no steel in the head IMHO you are good to go.

[jobob]

Note that some matches will dq you if you are found to be using ammo with any steel in the bullets.

I had heard this about Wolf ammo. I checked the ammo I've been shooting (bought a couple years ago) and it has a copper jacket. But, I opened a case of Wolf I bought this spring and the bullets jump right to a magnet. I called Wolf-USA and talked to their tech support yesterday. The guy told me that at the beginning of this year Wolf changed to using the steel jacketed bullets on ALL of their .223 ammo, as a cost saving. He said that the cost per case would have had to raise $50 to $80 if they had not made the change.

I also asked the tech if steel jackets caused excess barrel wear. He told me that if you use a hardness scale of 1 - 20, with a rifle barrel being 20, a copper jacket bullet would be 1, and the steel Wolf uses in their bullet jackets would be a 1.1. So, the answer was yes, the steel jackets would cause a very slight amount of increased barrel wear.

It's good to hear that steel jackets won't hurt steel targets, as I was afraid that it would. I would think that there would be a greater chance of getting spash back from the closer targets, though. I may start using Wolf in matches on the paper hosing stages, unless of course the match is giving dq's to anyone with steel projectiles.

BTW, while we're on the subject of 223 ammo, my favorite has been Federal AE 55 gr. But, you just can't get it now. My order through Sportsman's Guide was cancelled. Yesterday at a local range I met a guy who works at ATK (Speer/CCI). He told me the reason you can't get it is that Federal received a huge government contract from ICE (1 BILLION rounds!) for a new loading with a new expanding bullet designed just for them by Speer. He said Federal is converting all of their civilian .223 production for this contract, which may take 4 years to fill. So, I'm now hoarding the AE I have on hand, and plan to use the cheap Wolf (my POF works great with it) wherever I can.

[M ammo]

From my AR I can shoot a .57 group at 200 yards on a good day.

The best group I got from Wolf is 6 inches at 100. I measure with a ruler, or calipers. No eye ball.

I don’t know, for sure. I have heard people say the Wolf will cause chamber damage? From the steal case chambering. And it being much, harder than brass.

I have not shot that much wolf. Because of that.

Just in case it does mess up, the chamber.

I have been loading my own. .223 is getting harder to come by.

Who is ICE?

Jim M ammo

[RiggerJJ]

Go ahead and use your steel jacketed Wolfe ammo on your own steel, but do not take it to a match unless you want to provide the steel targets. The notion that steel jacketed projectiles will not damage steel targets is ludicrous.

And yes, if you are caught with steel projectiles at most matches, you will be encouraged to leave, for good reason. Steel targets are expensive, and the excessive wear is avoidable!

please do not bring steel projectile ammo to Rocky Mountain 3Gun.

thanks!

jj

Edited September 2, 2007 by RiggerJJ

[GentlemanJim]

Jims disclaimer...on steel jackets.

I have been told by several people that the steel jackets dont hurt t5 steel.

I do not shoot that stuff and have no PERSONAL experiance.

Ask the owner of the steel before shooting it!!!!

And as far as I know it is NOT allowed in any matches

I dont wish to lead anyone down the primrose path

Jim

[TRUBL]

Technically.....molten copper from a shaped charge will burn thru upto 4" of steel.

AND.......brass is VERY abrasive (so is aluminum, this is one reason why we are not supposed to use that kind of mat'l in our cleaning rods)

Pat did a test on steel bullets and steel targets with no adverse effect to the targets. ....at some longer distances

It all comes down to velocity.....55gr FMJ on steel at 10yds (.223 rifle) will destroy poppers. .308 steel core at 500yds will not hurt your steel. That inbetween stuff....well.....we could argue that all day. (slugs on poppers at 10yds aint smart either)

THAT all being said.....the absolute safe thing to do is to NOT allow steel jacketed or steel core ammo in rifles for matches and not to shoot steel with rifles at less than 100yds.

I'm with JJ on this one.......if a magnet sticks to the bullet, leave it home......I don't think askin for forgiveness at a match will allow you to continue shooting.

OH.....I tried some more of the wolf ammo......we'll be leavin that stuff home. Same groups as the last time, I just didn't believe store bought ammo could shoot that bad!!! WELL....it does.

Edited September 2, 2007 by TRUBL

[smokshwn]

JJ,

Just for clarification sake...There is no Wolf ammo allowed at RM3G?

I would like to know as it has been allowed in the past (I know for sure the last two years).

thanks,Craig

[jobob]

Recently manufactured Wolf ammo will have steel jackets, so would not be welcome at RM3G, I'm sure. The older stuff with copper jackets should be ok. Test yours with a magnet before taking to a major match.

ICE = Immigration and Customs Enforcement. The largest Federal law enforcement agency. It includes Customs, Border Patrol, Naturalization and Immigration Service. I believe it's under Homeland Security.

I've heard the rumors of steel cased ammo damaging chambers too, but have seen no evidence and I don't believe it. Especially if your bore and chamber are chromed there should be no problem.

Performance with Wolf ammo is highly variable. Of my 5 ARs one of them is pretty much a single shot using Wolf (bang, click, pull charging handle, repeat). Which is odd because that rifle is a 20" Bushmaster, and Bushmaster uses Wolf to test fire their guns before they leave the factory. My others seem to function fine with Wolf, although the 3 - 5 inch groups leave something to be desired with most of my guns. My POF, though, shoots 100 yard groups in the 1 to 2 inch range, with an occassional flyer to 3" or so. When I ordered my POF upper, Chris at the factory told me that they actually recommend using Wolf in their guns.

So, if major manufacturers are recommending the stuff, and even use it for test firing, I see no problem with using Wolf myself - EXEPT that it IS dirty, and I HATE cleaning guns. What used to be a labor of love for me is now a chore. I wish I had 'people' to do it for me!

[blkbrd]

After being corrected "rightly" in another post I started reading and sure enough looks like I'm not buying any more Wolf as I shoot 50 yard steel in many matches.

Guess its time to buy a 550 to set up for 223, as brass cased ammo is out of stock everywhere.

[jobob]

After being corrected "rightly" in another post I started reading and sure enough looks like I'm not buying any more Wolf as I shoot 50 yard steel in many matches.

Guess its time to buy a 550 to set up for 223, as brass cased ammo is out of stock everywhere.

Me too!

[ranger]

I am having acceptable results with Wolf 223 - all those unhappy with Wolf 223 can send their exess to me for prompt disposal .