Merlin Orr Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Not to worry Z... I mean the targets. I can muddle through about anything I usually encounter at a match but swingers always seem to have my number and kick my ass. It has to be some kind of mental thing as I KNOW they are not that hard to shoot properly. Is there any little mental note or method I can use to help with swinging targets..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Merlin, During the walkthrough watch the swinger to see where it transitions for one direction to the other. Pick out a reference point to denote that position (point on the wall, patch of dirt on the ground, etc.) A swinger will actually stop moving for a fraction of a second at the point of transition. When getting setup for the shot, aim at your reference point and let the swinger come to you, don't chase it. Pick a spot and ambush it. If your spot is good, you'll be able to engage the swinger when its almost completely stopped, before it starts to move in the other direction. Or you can just dump a whole lotta rounds and it and hope...like Ty does. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Merlin You got me, MY FIRST thought was EXACTLY as you indicated!!!! Damn, I am predictable. And, being the Wedding was called off on Jan. 1st, well, my options are OPEN again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 And, being the Wedding was called off on Jan. 1st, well, my options are OPEN again!!! WTF, Jay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) And, being the Wedding was called off on Jan. 1st, well, my options are OPEN again!!! WTF, Jay? Well, she had some issues, some I knew about, but one I did not. She was a recovering alcoholic, which I totally supported. I gave up drinking to support her, among other things I did to support it. She was literally drinking in the closet, one day I pulled 3 bottles and 4 corks out of the computer room closet, one half full and still chilled. I knew she was drinking, and tried to talk about it, but she would verbally attack me when I brought up the subject. A ZERO tolerance policy had been discussed in the beginning. This went on for a while. She would be confrontational, argumentative, and malicious when drinking. This was not what I wanted for my future. She is a VERY nice person, a lovely girl, and well, a great "partner" She was also worth about $20,000,000. The money was not an issue, my personal happiness was more important that the lifestyle she brought to the table. She is living in denial, and will not recognize she is a full blown alcoholic, AGAIN that is loosing the battle. She was given several chances, and well, I could not do it. Edited to add: Sorry for derailing Merlin's thread Edited January 8, 2007 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) I wrote this little song to help me with swinger targets... "When shooting swingers don't delay... Remember this key and you'll be okay... Just ....something....something..somthing...(Ray?) And shooting those swingers will make your day! Damnit...I forgot a line..... Edited January 8, 2007 by Pharaoh Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Is there any little mental note or method I can use to help with swinging targets..?? For me it is basically, If I can see it, I've probably already missed dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 What, Merlin didn't like the 2 swingers on stage 1? That stage changed the whole match for a lot of people Sunday!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramas Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I had same problem with plates. Poppers was all right. I cured shooting plates from 5yards to have my hits and moved further. Now, it's no problem shooting 30 yadrs and more. I think it is subconcious problem. If there is everything ok, then you can shoot no matter how far you are. Maybe you should try it with swingers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) I think swingers prove if you are seeing and calling shots. They also require no concious thoughts generally, to be shot successfully. If you are thinking, you are probably missing. Just shoot. I totally agree with practice at 5 and move back while settling for only A's. PS Was I just supposed to hate swingers and not give a reply? Edited January 8, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 You scared the crap out of me with the title of this thread. Considering the uproar over the SVI ad, I can't image where a discussion of alternate lifestyles might lead. Back to the subject. I've never had any problem with swingers, movers, drop turners, or any other moving target. I can't say why but I always seem to be able to hit them without a problem. However, something new has been added. I don't know if there is a formal name for them so I will simply call them "Rolling Targets". As in the targets on Stage 13 at the last Lim/L10/Revolver Nats. These targets give me fits because they appear and disappear faster than I can double tap with any accuracy. Now two of these devil spawn targets have shown up at our local club. I am quickly learning to hate them. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Is there any little mental note or method I can use to help with swinging targets..?? Stop cussin' long enough to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 The first time I saw a swinger in a match I just shot it and didn't think about it. Then someone bitched about how hard swingers were and proceeded to explain what a pain they were. Have had trouble with them since. Dammit. Once again proving that this sport is way more mental than anythng else. If you hate swingers you will really dislike my swinging arrays...a couple shoot targets with a no-shoot in there to make things interesting. It reveals who is part of the "spray and pray" crowd in a helluva hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 They also require no concious thoughts generally, to be shot successfully. If you are thinking, you are probably missing. Just shoot. +1 I program in where the swinger should be in the stage and then I just let it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 If you really want to learn to shoot swingers, and have access to one to practice on, shoot some bill drills on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Merlin, During the walkthrough watch the swinger to see where it transitions for one direction to the other. Pick out a reference point to denote that position (point on the wall, patch of dirt on the ground, etc.) A swinger will actually stop moving for a fraction of a second at the point of transition. When getting setup for the shot, aim at your reference point and let the swinger come to you, don't chase it. Pick a spot and ambush it. If your spot is good, you'll be able to engage the swinger when its almost completely stopped, before it starts to move in the other direction. Or you can just dump a whole lotta rounds and it and hope...like Ty does. Erik +1 I like to think of swingers as being static targets. Plan to shoot them at 90-100% of their swing as they come out, then 0-10% of their swing as they start back. Also, where is your visual focus on the swingers? Is it different from other targets you encounter? Check out Saul's clip of Robbie: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cay7UTL8nPk (Looks like he was a bit late getting on the second one...likely where the Charlie came from ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Well, she had some issues, some I knew about, but one I did not. If you think that's fun, try taking an alkie out XC skiing. After 4 hours without booze, the poor girl nearly keeled over. Back to the swingers.... Merlin, You really owe it to yourself to buy/build a swinger for your own use. It's a decision I've not regretted. I think the "hard" part of swinger is not shooting them, but in learning in how to not wait for them. Shooting other stuff while a swinger can't be engaged, then coming back for the swinger at the most opportune time is the real art IMO. Edited January 8, 2007 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Thanks for the input. I have read some things that may help me.....? I really think what I do is just forget every thing I every saw, heard or was shown when I see a damned swinger. Is that possible? Yesterday I shot a conservative match with a stage with zero points down and another with only 3 down. I then come to the last stage and just spray bullets at the two swingers.... I need mental help. Benny alternated between laughing at me and cussing me all day long today.... Or you can just dump a whole lotta rounds and it and hope...like Ty does. Erik Ty shot it 7 seconds faster, had a really nice Bunny Hop between positions, and had no misses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I think the "hard" part of swinger is not shooting them, but in learning in how to not wait for them. Shooting other stuff while a swinger can't be engaged, then coming back for the swinger at the most opportune time is the real art IMO. Nah, that's the easy part. The hard part is hitting the swingers that don't stop and change direction where you can see them. Like the stage at Limited nats that had what, 3 or 4 swingers that were just waving from behind windows. Those you really just have to let yourself shoot and then pray at the end that you hit em'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I am NO EXPERT, but..... Hold on a point and wait for your front sight to cover the brown of the target, when this happens, let two go!!! If you wanna make sure, do the same thing as it swings back, NO way you will have a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I think the "hard" part of swinger is not shooting them, but in learning in how to not wait for them. Shooting other stuff while a swinger can't be engaged, then coming back for the swinger at the most opportune time is the real art IMO. Nah, that's the easy part. . *You* find it easy. *I* find it hard. Since our club had no swingers for a long time (then when we had one, it was never used in a match) I really suffered from "swinger anxiety." I'd just see one and vapor lock. It's something I find I have to practice with to succeed on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Merlin, I used to have no confidence on swingers. Marques and some others basically gave me the advice that Erik spelled out for you, about ambushing the swinger ---- but they added something else. Always have a plan to activate the swinger, never activate it early in the hopes that it'll slow down and be easier. The logic being, that you want to spend the least amount of time possible waiting for the swinger, in an ideal situation. Putting that into practice was tough in the beginning..... I'd hit the activator, swing the gun to my spot and wait. Target appears, engage, if I didn't like what I saw, I'd wait and re-engage. Eventually I learned to watch the time it took to activate, and if there was something that was an easy transition from the activator, AND an easy transition to my ambush spot, then I'd try to shoot that in between...... Just do it ---- and as soon as you're close, try to develop the confidence to shoot 'em twice and move on. I always want to see my hits on movers ---- because they reaffirm what I saw during the stage..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) I think it was Cheely(?) who had a video of a Nationals stage. He triple tap the targets. I saw Walgren(?) triple tapped as well. http://www.henningshootsguns.com/movies/20...ge8_henning.wmv Maybe they were controlled tripples... but I started doing quick tripples instead of the normal doubles in practice. I'm sure calling them is the best bet. But I could have sworn I had hits when I had alpha mikes on a couple of those swingers. So I started to shoot thrice on the far and fast ones. Edited January 9, 2007 by Religious Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Jane Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Not to worry Z... I mean the targets. I can muddle through about anything I usually encounter at a match but swingers always seem to have my number and kick my ass. It has to be some kind of mental thing as I KNOW they are not that hard to shoot properly. Is there any little mental note or method I can use to help with swinging targets..?? Swingers have always been a nemesis of mine. I decided to face my foe and spent probably 10 practice sessions and at least 2K down range on swingers. I wanted to share what I learned. I don't know if it will help anybody but I did make some progress in my own shooting. There were 3 things that I needed to overcome if I was going to be successful shooting swingers. They were anxiety, timing, and patience. Anxiety When you are weak at a skill it is natural to have a little anxiety when you are asked to perform that skill. My anxiety wasn't the type that made your palms sweat or your heart race. It was more of a tension in my shooting. I could engage paper targets in a relaxed alert frame of mind but would come to the swinger and tense up. I would describe this tension like the tension you feel in your face when you shoot with one eye closed. I removed the anxiety/tension by multiple practice sessions of shooting only swingers. I shot at them so much it became boring. Timing Many have tried to explain what and how to shoot a swinger but in reality you are your best teacher. I vowed myself to stand there and just observe. I shot it and shot it and shot it and after each shots fired asked myself what I saw. I shot it at the pause and I shot it at the 10 and 2. I shoot a limited gun and there are a lot of things going on. Seeing the target, pulling your focus to the front sight, pulling the trigger….all of these things have to do with your reaction time. I finally realized that mine was slow. Therefore I finally figured out that many times I have to pull the trigger before the brown of the target comes into my sight picture. THIS IS NOT TRUE FOR ALL!!! Only for me and my timing! When I pull the trigger the sight lifts into the brown for me. Again this is NOT ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The point is I found out when I needed to pull the trigger by being a passive observer and shooting many, many, many rounds down range. Patience This is going to sound strange, but I found out that I needed an extreme amount of visual patience to shoot at swingers. The visual patience part has to do with the second shot. I can shoot A's on the first shot NO PROBLEM. It's the second shot that gets me. The reason is because I tend to rush it. I rush it because of the anxiety/tension thing and in my brain I think I have to shoot that second shot fast. The truth about the second shot is you have to see it just like you saw the first shot. AND if you allow yourself to see it you will. If my cadence is bangbang, the second shot will be a mike. If my cadence is bang..bang then I will get my second shot on target. I need to be visually patient and allow my gun to recoil. It's hard to be patient with something that is moving, but that's what has to be done. My bottom line was I had to do the work myself and figure it out. It's not much fun and it was particularly hard not to tell myself "You stink" as I was learning. Perhaps I should add being patient with oneself is also a necessary igredient to success. Best of luck to all those seeking the way to kick a swingers axx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 (edited) I think it was Cheely(?) who had a video of a Nationals stage. He triple tap the targets. I saw Walgren(?) triple tapped as well.http://www.henningshootsguns.com/movies/20...ge8_henning.wmv Maybe they were controlled tripples... but I started doing quick tripples instead of the normal doubles in practice. I'm sure calling them is the best bet. But I could have sworn I had hits when I had alpha mikes on a couple of those swingers. So I started to shoot thrice on the far and fast ones. I did shoot the swingers 3 times, but that's only because I called a miss on each target. Those were plenty slow enough to shoot 2 A's on. I felt I screwed up on it a little because the 1st makeup shot slowed me down to the 2nd swinger and I didn't get to engage it where I wanted, and took the 2nd makup shot. Edited January 13, 2007 by Matt Cheely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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