Suppose There Was A Combined Match

[ong45]

If there was a match that combined 3 seperate disciplines, lets say uspsa, steel challenge and action pistol. Scored on the aggregate of percentages (?)

How many people would be interested in such a marathon?

Who would you think has the best chance of winning?

[AlamoShooter]

= It s called Alamo Sport Shooting Club. ... That may be why Im not any good at any of it

I know what you ment though, the power factor would have to be waved. what we do is use knock down targets as (power factors) = your load has to knock the steel down, or you may have to hit it twice. You know, like at nationals.

I would go to a shoot like that, but it is hard to (shift) from stage to stage

Jamie

Edited November 9, 2006 by AlamoShooter

[Guy Neill]

That was the original premiss of the Bianchi Cup was to combine different shooting sports. In that case, it was mainly PPC, Practical Pistol and metallic silhouette. The steel was new to most and the time limits were too short for most of the silhouette shooters. The Mover and Practical stages came from Practical Pistol, and the Barricade from PPC.

The Steel Challenge was originated a year or two later by the Mikes, who had participated in the Bianchi Cup.

Like most shooting, build it and they will come - for the most part, or, at least, some. You don;t know for certain until you try.

Guy

[Flexmoney]

I've been thinking of running that very match. (tournament)

I probably would have done it already if I wouldn't have been running the USPSA Section match for the last two years.

I was looking at seperate days for each match (so...a 3 day event), due to range limitations. Your aggregate of percentages would work too. Might have to look at the various ways those two methods of scoring might change things...

And, I'd have a shoot-offs. Hopefully to break ties at the top of the score sheet.

I was going to score each match, then add up the shooters placement, lowest combined placement wins. ( 10th + 12th + 18th = 40 combined )

[ong45]

I've been thinking of running that very match. (tournament)

I probably would have done it already if I wouldn't have been running the USPSA Section match for the last two years.

I was looking at seperate days for each match (so...a 3 day event), due to range limitations. Your aggregate of percentages would work too. Might have to look at the various ways those two methods of scoring might change things...

And, I'd have a shoot-offs. Hopefully to break ties at the top of the score sheet.

I was going to score each match, then add up the shooters placement, lowest combined placement wins. ( 10th + 12th + 18th = 40 combined )

I did not originally think of this, someone brought this up who is by the way in a position to make this happen. I think everything would work the way you laid it out, adding up the percentages would make sure all games are weighed the same.

Imagine 600 ronds of shooting in 3 days.

Seems to me a match tailor made for someone like DK or Don Golombieski.

[Flexmoney]

We get a little of this locally already. I run a SC match on Saturday. Five stages. We usually shoot twice. Then, Rayner's runs their USPSA match on Sunday. Their monthly matches are almost like a Sectional (6-7 stages and tough). We often shoot through twice there too. Makes for a great weekend.

What I worry about is the number of shooters we could accommodate. We can turn an USPSA stage in 3-4 minutes with the right attention to detail. I never have timed it out, but I feel that SC takes a noticeable bit longer. And, unless we can run more than one shooter at a time for each AP stage, then that will go slower yet. (We probably have the space to run two sets of barricades, etc....but, only one mover.)

Wouldn't using the percentages give more weight to the shooter that is a specialist in one discipline ?

I know I see some goofy closeness in USPSA percentages (but, not often at the very top). There might not be as much separation between shooters with percentages?

How would percentages work with AP? They use raw points first, then X-count next for placement. That might require some thinking.

I do recall that I ran some percentage numbers on SC a while back...looking to see if there was much separation (with everybody's times being so close). Seems like there was more separation than I thought I'd see.

(just brainstorming here...)

[XD Niner]

Do you get to shoot a lot of bullets at defenseless steel and cardboard targets while running around, slandering your "friends" and having fun? If so, you'll not lack for competitors.

[sargenv]

3 seperate disciplines, lets say uspsa, steel challenge and action pistol

Um.. Us round gun shooters call that sort of thing ICORE

Vince

[shred]

What I worry about is the number of shooters we could accommodate. We can turn an USPSA stage in 3-4 minutes with the right attention to detail. I never have timed it out, but I feel that SC takes a noticeable bit longer. And, unless we can run more than one shooter at a time for each AP stage, then that will go slower yet. (We probably have the space to run two sets of barricades, etc....but, only one mover.)

(just brainstorming here...)

Sounds like a good idea to me.

FWIW, in our experience, SC stages (and matches) typically run faster than IPSC stages, especially at a club match. The shooting can take a little longer, but the scorekeeping and reset is almost instant. My notes say a squad of 8-10 average club shooters ROing and scorekeeping themselves and not being particularly rushed about it can shoot a SC stage in about 30 minutes.

[uscbigdawg]

James,

I'll be there.

Rich

[Action Pistolero]

Tom Fee, the owner of the US Shooting Academy, had an idea that he called the "Triple Crown". It included a full blown USPSA match, the Steel Callenge and the four Bianchi Cup events. He tried to say that we had to use the same gun throughout but I hope I talked him out of that one. Sounds like a great idea to me. Hopefully it will become reality.

[Lee]

Come on Kevin. I want to see you shoot action with your steel gun! I vote for one gun on all three. Partly because I only use one, but mostly just to see Kevin squirm!

[EricW]

Tom Fee, the owner of the US Shooting Academy, had an idea that he called the "Triple Crown". It included a full blown USPSA match, the Steel Callenge and the four Bianchi Cup events. He tried to say that we had to use the same gun throughout but I hope I talked him out of that one. Sounds like a great idea to me. Hopefully it will become reality.

It's not a good idea. It's a great idea and I was going to try and set up something very similar here locally until reality (read: job) intervened. I'd like to see them also try and push out the distances and force people to shoot 100 yards offhand. If USSA ever puts on such an event, I'll be there in a cold second.

Also, SC runs MUCH MUCH faster for us than IPSC. We can crank people through a 6 stage match in 3 1/2 hours here, including teardown. It would go even faster if we used rollers to repaint the steel like at Piru.

[shred]

Also, SC runs MUCH MUCH faster for us than IPSC. We can crank people through a 6 stage match in 3 1/2 hours here, including teardown. It would go even faster if we used rollers to repaint the steel like at Piru.

FWIW, the last few years at Piru have been good old cheap spray paint, applied by squad members. I saw the rollers (and designated painters) on an old video and wondered why they stopped, but never really asked.

[sargenv]

100 yards with a handgun? Man, I'd wanna do that again.. though a 6.5" 610 is a shoo-in, that's what the 10 mm was made for, long distance targets. It's tough finding anywhere that allows you to shoot a handgun at that distance. Back before I was shooting IPSC, IHMSA was a whole lot of fun. Revolvers and single shots rocked. I had a friend who was convinced that a handgun was useless beyond 15 yards.. I um, showed him the error of his ways when I was shooting a 357 at the starting distance of 50 yards.

If you think those 8" plates at 25 or 30 are bad, how about 12 inch tall steel chickens at 50 meters..

Vince

[DanM]

I'd be all over a Triple Crown type event. I like the one gun rule too. Build it and they will come

[XRe]

One gun rule rules! Lets see what you can do with the same equipment across the board...

[Carmoney]

The broader and more widely-varied the shooting tasks required in the match, the more likely it becomes that Jerry Miculek would win.

[Mick]

I started a new forum on IDSA matches which I thought was the best of both worlds for the "Practial/Tactical" folks.....The attitudes appear to keep it from taking off...

Too bad. It looked promising...

Mick

A27257

[ParaJoe]

I've been thinking of running that very match. (tournament)

I probably would have done it already if I wouldn't have been running the USPSA Section match for the last two years.

I was looking at seperate days for each match (so...a 3 day event), due to range limitations. Your aggregate of percentages would work too. Might have to look at the various ways those two methods of scoring might change things...

And, I'd have a shoot-offs. Hopefully to break ties at the top of the score sheet.

I was going to score each match, then add up the shooters placement, lowest combined placement wins. ( 10th + 12th + 18th = 40 combined )

I did not originally think of this, someone brought this up who is by the way in a position to make this happen. I think everything would work the way you laid it out, adding up the percentages would make sure all games are weighed the same.

Imagine 600 ronds of shooting in 3 days.

Seems to me a match tailor made for someone like DK or Don Golombieski.

I'd be there in a flash. Bring the whole damn Sage crew with me. When? Sounds like fun.

Joe

[B.J. Norris]

James,

To make it interesting, make it one match, 20-22 stages. Shoot the 4 Action pistol stages, the 8 SC stages and 8-10 USPSA stages, time plus scoring. Mix all the stages up to test your ability to switch gears, imagine shooting The Practical, then Smoke and Hope or a hoser field course. Then to make it really interesting, you have to use the same equipment for the whole match, bring what you think you can do the best with, whether it is a steel gun, AP gun or IPSC gun.

Just my .02

[Kimberkid]

IMO, how you weight the stages if going to have a huge effect. If all 3 disciplines weigh the same, the talented AP shooter who is good at IPSC and average at steel will win. In most IPSC matches the top few are generally (im using generalities, not bashing any particular discipline, cuz I shoot em all) semi close. Times in Steel matches tend to be similiar. Scores in AP matches can run a huge range and will among people who dont often shoot them.

Very interesting concept. Not likely to happen without a lot of people complaining bout how its done. Let me know when and where, I'm up for it.

BTW- TGO wins it. He's won them all in the same year individually. Keonig will also be right up on top.

[shred]

IMO, how you weight the stages if going to have a huge effect. If all 3 disciplines weigh the same, the talented AP shooter who is good at IPSC and average at steel will win. In most IPSC matches the top few are generally (im using generalities, not bashing any particular discipline, cuz I shoot em all) semi close. Times in Steel matches tend to be similiar. Scores in AP matches can run a huge range and will among people who dont often shoot them.

Very interesting concept. Not likely to happen without a lot of people complaining bout how its done. Let me know when and where, I'm up for it.

BTW- TGO wins it. He's won them all in the same year individually. Keonig will also be right up on top.

What's the breakdown of scores at Bianchi? At SC this year, 5th place was 5% below 1st and 10th was 9% back. At the USPSA nats, 5th was 7% below and 10th 12% below 1st. Not counting the Xs (how do you do that?), as near as I can figure it, 5th at Bianchi was only 0.5% back and 10th 0.7% behind.

I agree TGO or Doug wins it. Jerry if they had 3-gun or ICORE instead of IPSC

[ong45]

James,

To make it interesting, make it one match, 20-22 stages. Shoot the 4 Action pistol stages, the 8 SC stages and 8-10 USPSA stages, time plus scoring. Mix all the stages up to test your ability to switch gears, imagine shooting The Practical, then Smoke and Hope or a hoser field course. Then to make it really interesting, you have to use the same equipment for the whole match, bring what you think you can do the best with, whether it is a steel gun, AP gun or IPSC gun.

Just my .02

One gun idea sounds good to me, how do we handle power factor? Everyone scores minor or major?

Weighing the AP portion will be a pain in the ass, how do you suppose if we weigh it equally do you assign a percentage where there are 2 ways of looking at the scores ? ( score and x count )

If i had to shoot 1 gun, a bianchi gun with a shroud would probably be the way to go. Works probably well for everything and be a huge + in the barricade.

[Steve Moneypenny]

I'd shoot it!

Not sure about the name "tripple crown though" there are 2 different tripple crowns not including the horse races... the US nationals, European IPSC and WORLD IPSC champs. then there is the Bianchi cup steel challenge USPSA nationals ... heck there may even be others that are called that too.