Anticipating Mag Reloads?

[rvbgtr]

I've been shooting production for about a year. I'll plan each stage including mag reloads, but more often than not the plan changes once the buzzer goes off. I believe it is important to be able to anticipate when you need to reload, but I'm having trouble keeping track. Does anyone count rounds? Any suggestions? Thanks,

[dfwmiket]

Most stages I shoot are pretty well defined as far as where you need to plan to do your reload. Make SURE you are walking the stage and getting a mental gameplan, too. Usually after an array of 8 (and most stages are setup that way) you can plan to do a reload. Hope that helps, and I'm sure you'll get more/better/detailed info besides mine, too. Good luck!

Mike

[Micah]

Counting rounds, I have found, is too taxing when you are manuvering around a difficult field stage. I shooting Production, and reloads play a HUGE role in how I tackle a stage. During your walkthrough, pick which targets you will reload from after engaging them, and follow through. Throwing out your stage plan after the buzzer sounds will punish your hit factor.

Here's a link to Steve Anderson's "Stage Analysis and Ownership Plan" from his website. This is an excellent tool to help you map out your battleplans!

I would also suggest, if you haven't purchased a copy from this website, Saul Kursch's new book, Thinking Practical Shooting

Linky to book

[eerw]

picking the right spot for your reload is important in any division...

I shoot a lot of production now..and I do my walkthroughs in stages..I usually will walk a stage just to see how it flows..keeping reloads in the back of my mind..once I determine how a stage will flow..I will plan my reloads looking for the combinations to minimize the number of reloads..once I build that..I work that plan several times..most stages are not too difficult to do..with more complex stages it may take a few more concentrated walkthroughs..both physically and visually..

the key is to be focused when the time comes..you cannot work a plan without complete attention..and you cannot execute a plan without complete focus..

[vluc]

For a production shooter, this old adage is most appropriate:

"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail."

[Jaxshooter]

I was told by a very good shooter. If your feet are moving between arrays you should be reloading.

[sturmruger]

I will reload after 8-6 shots. Like Jax said if you are moving and have nothing to shoot at you might as well reload. I know exactly what you mean about forgetting to reload it happens to me. Now I practice my reloads at home so much I can do them all most with out thinking that has really helped. I have had a few times where I will throw a reload in when I only have like 2 steel at the end of stage and I had plenty of round to cover those targets.

[eerw]

"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail."

that is so very true...

[Flexmoney]

I don't often count shots.

I count how many make-up rounds I have in each mag (spare shots).

[jasmap]

Just as some of the other guys said....plan your reloads at a specific location and then follow through with it. Stage visualation before you shoot is very important. While you're waiting to shoot mentally run through the stage picturing everything. See your sights lift and settle on the A zone, imagine your reloads, see your shots on the steel, etc... Do it over and over til you feel you have it down.

[R. Batt]

I do the same as Flexmoney and count how many make-up shots I have.

[kevin c]

I think it may partly depend on the way the COF is set up. Out here at Richmond (CA) we tend to like a high round count. That will often push the # of shots per position up close to eight or nine (sometimes more, if some targets are available elsewhere). That makes it easy for production and L10 shooters - a reload planned going into each position is expected.

If you have a COF with fewer shots per position, though, that might not be the best way to salvage a FUBAR. If your approach is sophisticated, say, cross shooting targets in one array from an alternate position to save rounds/reloads/steps, and then things goes awry, then a fallback has might be to reload on the move to insure enough rounds to finish the next array, and then "reacquire" the plan at the next planned reload spot. It might cost an extra reload and a bit of time, but that's better than trying to wing it, miscounting rounds and then being forced to do a flatefooted standing reload. The programmed in run will have hiccupped, but might still work out if you can get back to it.

At least that's the way I try to do it. At my level, sometimes it works, sometimes it don't.

Edited September 26, 2006 by kevin c

[want2race]

I was confronted with one stage awhile back that was tough to plan. Start with gun on barrel (unloaded gun). All mags on belt only. I only carried 3 mags on the belt because normally 4 total mags is plenty for production. Well, this stage was designed to mess with ME I guess. 28 round stage, set up with two 10 round arrays and an 8. Kind of, depending on how you shot it. That gave me 2 spare shots for the stage.

There was some movement involved but not that I could easily coordinate with reloads. Most shooters just shot till slide lock twice, based on the paper targets. I wanted to avoid that if I could. There were two clamshells spaced far enough apart (the way I ran the stage) that I planned my reloads based around them. Both reloads were done after hitting the activating popper, reloading while clamshell was in motion, engaging it before it finished.

My plan was different and I was lightly ribbed for it. I planned both reloads for after each steel popper. I didn't have to worry about counting or running out of rounds (with no misses). PING! reload.

Edited September 28, 2006 by want2race

[reneet]

I do the same as Flexmoney and count how many make-up shots I have.

+1

[Wideload]

I was told by a very good shooter. If your feet are moving between arrays you should be reloading.

This sums up the simplest but effective strategy... As others already stated, you may leave a few rounds behind but your risks of running dry will be greatly minimized.

[Flexmoney]

Truely, the best strategy is to get a workable plan, stick to it, and don't miss.

Any shooter that I see that isn't to the stage of not missing much...needs to be putting most of their effort into hitting the target every time.

And, sure...we are all going to miss. It's always nice to have a plan that allows for a few extra shots before the reloads.

[TEricksen]

Early on when I first started competing, I always counted shots in my head and had very specific ideas of where or when I should reload.

At the height of my time competing, I no longer conciously thought about how many rounds I had fired or where I needed to reload because it just sort of happened at the right time.

Stages back when I was shooting a lot frequently were set up with series of 6 shots and a total stage count of 24rds which frequently left me having to reload between sets due to my prefered single stack guns. 11 round mags were the largest that fit under the rules at the time, and I could start with 1 in the chamber and 11 in the mag. If I fired 12 rounds (3 target set, 3 target set) then a reload I was left one round short of being able to finish the last 6 shots on a 24 rd stage. What's this have to do with anything? This: I modified one of my 11 rd mags to hold 12 by using a very short follower and a modified spring. The only problem was that the mag would not seat in the gun on a closed slide. I had to use the 12rd mag on an open slide. I found that most of the time, I never even thought about it. I'd shoot 12 to an empty gun, reload with the 12rd'er and finish the stage. If I fired an extra round anywhere in the scenario, I simply reloaded and took the time penalty without giving it a thought.

I highly recommend counting your shots and always knowing exactly how many rounds you've used along with how many rounds you have left as a matter of practice. Eventually you'll move beyond the conscious thought process.

[Scooter]

Counting rounds, what's that? When you get to that one piece of steel that just won't go down, counting rounds is the last thing you are thinknig of.

For Production or L-10, plan on reloading every time you move. Once you are done shooting an array, RELOAD. If you miss too many shots and have to do a static reload, you still need to do a reload the moment you move. Most people forget to do a reload if they had to do a static reload on an array. Now you might be a few rounds short for the next array. If you don't fall back on your original plan of reloading every time you move, you end up doing a lot of static reloads costing you a lot of time. This is why people carry 6-8 mags.

[TEricksen]

Counting rounds, what's that? When you get to that one piece of steel that just won't go down, counting rounds is the last thing you are thinknig of.

For Production or L-10, plan on reloading every time you move. Once you are done shooting an array, RELOAD. If you miss too many shots and have to do a static reload, you still need to do a reload the moment you move. Most people forget to do a reload if they had to do a static reload on an array. Now you might be a few rounds short for the next array. If you don't fall back on your original plan of reloading every time you move, you end up doing a lot of static reloads costing you a lot of time. This is why people carry 6-8 mags.

I don't understand your question: "Counting rounds, what's that?"

I always knew exactly how many rounds I had fired, and how many rounds that I had left in the gun. At some point in your shooting training it's just something you start to know, not something you think about.

If you don't know how many rounds you have left, you cannot make an informed decision on how to finish a stage. There were many times that I would make a game-plan change mid-stage based on how many rounds I had left in my gun.

Making a mag change every time you move is a great guideline, but there are times when knowing exactly how many rounds you have left can save time.

I would never recommend to anyone that it is a good idea to just keep shooting to empty then reload without a conscious knowledge that the gun is x number of rounds from empty.

There were many times that I didn't want to reload on an open slide.

Knowing how many rounds you've fired and how many rounds are left in the gun, is, in my opinion, a basic fundamental of practical pistol and speed steel.

[wide45]

Make all your decisions during the walkthrough. A decision on the clock will cost you 2 tenths.

Edited October 19, 2006 by wide45

[raz-0]

Well, I'm in that camp of still very much learning, and i can go faster, or I can get my hits. I'm trying to make both happen, and thus I'm still making up shots outside of "the plan."

I got some advice that sounds good on paper, but i haven't gotten the chance to really put it into practice yet, so can't fully vouch for it.

the advice was basically this:

If you have your plan to reload at spots x, y, and z in the course of fire, and you screw up and shoot more than you should to do them, don't try to replan all your reloads. Reload as soon as you reasonably can after screwing up, and hit the remainder of your planned reloads according to plan, even if you are dropping a mag with 7 rounds in it on the ground