Hands Naturally At Sides

[LPatterson]

After the load and make ready I am going to hang my arm over the gun with my hand touching the bottom of the holster as I have practiced this way and respectfully challenge anyone wanting me to change this position while citing rule 8.2.3 that has been tied died on my shooting shirt.

Any areas of IPSC rules that are vague R.O.s should not put themselves in a postion of telling anyone what is meant by hands naturally at sides then should,while ensuring that the gun is not touched and no creeping or changing of postion occurs, run the match.

I am not trying to disrepect any of the hard working R.O's as I am one myself but some R.O. are over the top.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

You might wind up waiting a long time between Are You Ready & Standby if I were your RO. But it is your right to call the Range Master & request another RO.

[45gunner]

45gunner,

I don't disagree with you..much.

But, from a shooter/competitor standpoint...why dick with it?

I know I am a lot better off focusing my energies on other things.

There is nothing that is a bigger distraction from the shooting than debating with the RO while you are on the line.

Agree with you totally!

[45gunner]

After the load and make ready I am going to hang my arm over the gun with my hand touching the bottom of the holster as I have practiced this way and respectfully challenge anyone wanting me to change this position while citing rule 8.2.3 that has been tied died on my shooting shirt.

Any areas of IPSC rules that are vague R.O.s should not put themselves in a postion of telling anyone what is meant by hands naturally at sides then should,while ensuring that the gun is not touched and no creeping or changing of postion occurs, run the match.

I am not trying to disrepect any of the hard working R.O's as I am one myself but some R.O. are over the top.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

You might wind up waiting a long time between Are You Ready & Standby if I were your RO. But it is your right to call the Range Master & request another RO.

An R.O. purpose is to keep people safe and not try to interpert rules that don't exist. Persons with you attitute need to find another way in life to show your importance.

Edited July 12, 2006 by 45gunner

[TimBoettcher]

The arms just hang at your sides, thats its. Theres a term for those who put the bend in the elbows to get your hand up higher. Anyone........can't remember whats its called.

I recall having heard the phrase "and no doing the ipsc monkey" thrown around to discourage such behavior.

I love it! lol

[caps]

But it is your right to call the Range Master & request another RO.

Which rule lets you do that?

BTW the answer to the same "hands hanging naturally" question at the IPSC forum was basically "DOH! See Appendix F1". Seems like a winner to me.

[Jim Norman]

Do you mean Appendix F1 "Magazine Measurement"?

Or F3 which shows the equipment positions required for Standard and probably Production?

True enough there is a picture there and the shooter illustrated does have his hands hanging naturally enough at his sides.

I suppose one could include such a picture in the stage instructions and have it present at the COF.

Personally, I am all in favor of "Standing in the FreeFire Zone, On start signal, engage all targets with sufficient rounds to score" as a start. Other starts include sitting on chair (which brings up even more questions as to just what one should consider "Sitting" to be) At Summer Blast, the instruction was simple, your butt had to touch the seat. Simple and to the point.

I really think we read way too much into the start positions. Maybe if we all practiced drawing our gun and hitting the targets more and practiced tearing apart the instructions less we'd all be better off?

Jim Norman

[Flexmoney]

Topic re-opened. Duplicate topic merged here.

[steel1212]

I've watched a few videos lately where you can obviously see the shooters hands aren't hanging at their sides they are bent in or even hovering over their legs. What do you consider naturally at sides? I always thought it was as your standing their your hands are just hanging down relaxed?

[Pat Miles]

Hands relaxed naturally at sides is just that. I have also seen shooters with their arms bent at the elbows with their hands up around the gun. When I RO I will tell the shooter what the hand position is and start the commands over. I guess it all depends what the RO allows and his attention to the WSB.

CYa,

Pat

[CocoBolo]

Exactly, and if they are not as the RO I don't start them. I will repeat hands relaxed at sides, that don't mean hands pre-staged on line locked.

[Pezco]

The directions seem to make sense, but is subjective at best.

[XRe]

Ah, the infamous "IPSC Monkey" starting position... I laugh at those people - cause they're actually inducing tension in the shooting platform and causing themselves to have a slower draw time. A relaxed muscle contracts faster than a muscle with tension on it. You might achieve the same draw time when all goes right - but the chance of blown grips and draws increases quite a bit, as well as all the other negative affects of tension in the platform...

[Schutzenmeister]

For those who need a picture ... From Rule 8.2.2:

"'Arms hanging naturally by sides' is illustrated in Appendix E3."

Much of the problem comes in with ROs, particularly at the local level, not enforcing the rule.

[Chris Keen]

I've actually had people get mad at me for telling them "your hands are not relaxed at sides" ...... which only exacerbates the tension in their body by the time the buzzer goes off.

[steel1212]

For those who need a picture ... From Rule 8.2.2:

"'Arms hanging naturally by sides' is illustrated in Appendix E3."

Much of the problem comes in with ROs, particularly at the local level, not enforcing the rule.

The videos I was watching wasn't local level videos.

[Airedale]

Hands naturally at sides starts and facing uprange starts have (are)pretty simple instructions. It's annoying when the shooter who wants to argue these very simple start positions wastes my time as a squadmate.

The solution is simple.......tazer RO

Are you ready?.....reeaaally....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

Unload, show clear, clean trousers.....next shooter!

In retrospect, that's likely not the correct solution.

Dave

[steel1212]

Hands naturally at sides starts and facing uprange starts have (are)pretty simple instructions. It's annoying when the shooter who wants to argue these very simple start positions wastes my time as a squadmate.

The solution is simple.......tazer RO

Are you ready?.....reeaaally....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

Unload, show clear, clean trousers.....next shooter!

In retrospect, that's likely not the correct solution.

Dave

Sooo....you shooting with us in a couple weeks!!

[Airedale]

Hands naturally at sides starts and facing uprange starts have (are)pretty simple instructions. It's annoying when the shooter who wants to argue these very simple start positions wastes my time as a squadmate.

The solution is simple.......tazer RO

Are you ready?.....reeaaally....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

Unload, show clear, clean trousers.....next shooter!

In retrospect, that's likely not the correct solution.

Dave

Sooo....you shooting with us in a couple weeks!!

Day after tomorrow if you're shooting Ky 3 gun!

Brownies!

[steel1212]

Hands naturally at sides starts and facing uprange starts have (are)pretty simple instructions. It's annoying when the shooter who wants to argue these very simple start positions wastes my time as a squadmate.

The solution is simple.......tazer RO

Are you ready?.....reeaaally....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

Unload, show clear, clean trousers.....next shooter!

In retrospect, that's likely not the correct solution.

Dave

Sooo....you shooting with us in a couple weeks!!

Day after tomorrow if you're shooting Ky 3 gun!

Brownies!

I'm on call can't come play.

[Corey]

i like the tazer idea! "shooter ready?....your not ready." ZAP!

As for the position described, i draw better when i actually am relaxed vs when i tense my shoulders up bringing my hand closer to the gun anyway. i do usually bend my wrist a bit to get my hand in a better drawing position for when it comes up, but my hand is at my side and my arms are relaxed so im not expecting a tazer zap anytime soon.

[Flexmoney]

Start Position: Right hand on mouse.

Procedure: Upon thinking of question, move cursor to the SEARCH button, activate ADVANCED search. Define search parameters and engage search.

Penalties: One FTDR for failing to properly execute a search.

[spanky]

Start Position: Right hand on mouse.

Procedure: Upon thinking of question, move cursor to the SEARCH button, activate ADVANCED search. Define search parameters and engage search.

Penalties: One FTDR for failing to properly execute a search.

[bbbean]

Penalties: One FTDR for failing to properly execute a search.

Wrong sport.

[ima45dv8]

On a couple of occasions when people tried to say their hunched-up posture was natural, I said that if I ever saw them like that away from the range they'd have an apology coming. Until then, clean it up and let's get going!

[ima45dv8]

Penalties: One FTDR for failing to properly execute a search.

Wrong sport.

Not really.

Flex is a founding member of the Unites States Practical Searching Association and early on adopted the FTDR as a penalty.