Flowing

[schmitz]

Flex, could we say that flow is stability, freed from the constraints of time?

and is that what we search in shooting....I guess we are.

[benos]

To me, "flowing" describes what it feels like when what we've trained, separately, merges into one activity.

If you're lucky, you learned first what it looks and feels like to call and fire an accurate shot. Then you learned to do that after drawing. Then with more targets, a reload now and then, and some scurrying around ("faster is better"), shooting became a bit more complicated. So then you learned to visualize, to tie it all together. Now we say things like "if you can create it your mind, you can do it." And then we begin to wonder - wow, what if everything is like that!

[Singlestack]

Now we say things like "if you can create it your mind, you can do it." And then we begin to wonder - wow, what if everything is like that!

Where your conscious mind dwells, your subconcious mind will bring about the change to make it happen.

[ArnisAndyz]

I study Filipino Martial Arts which has many, many "flow" drills" one of which is Cadena de mano or chain of the hands. The idea is that instead of block, then punch, then block, then whatever...the flow is what hold all of the individual techniques together. Its the "glue" that binds them. The flow dictates what technique will come next. The flow is everchanging depending on external and internal factors. The flow is state of sensitivity and awareness that allows us to perform our techniques.

You might break a draw down into its component peices for skill development, but when you draw and fire that first shot it should be one flowing movement. Likewise, the transitions from target to target in a string should be chained or linked together mentally. Then strings in a staged linked.

Its the diffrence between constructing words, sentences, paragraphs and chapters.

Here is an article that I wrote for Eskrima Digest.

I remember when my daughter got her first set of LEGOS. It was a pretty basic set and it took her a while to learn how to click them together. As time went on, and she was proficient with the operation of the blocks, she asked me to help her make the picture on the box. She started copying the picture, getting frustrated when she couldn’t do it and tearing the blocks down and starting all over until she finally got it. She played with it everyday for two weeks. She eventually got bored with it and didn’t play with it for a while. Several months later she found the toy at the bottom of her toy box and pulled it out. But this time something was different. Instead of copying the picture on the box she started making her own creations. A chair and table, a car, a house, etc. Her creativity was growing with each piece that she made. Her cousin, who is close to the same age, came over one day and, like all kids, they started fighting over the toy. We went out and bought her an identical set of LOGOS. I then had them each make whatever they wanted using the same set. Can you guess what happened? They both made totally unique creative sculptures using the same blocks. Even when I had them make the same object, they were different. And the great part was that they were both right.

So what does this have to do with Filipino Martial Arts you might ask? Everything. When we first begin a martial art we learn the details of form and structure by copying an instructor or senior and by repetitive drills. As years go on and we get more proficient we start to develop our own identity and personality that is governed by our physical abilities, personal opinions and experiences. We no longer are bound to a strict set of rules. We no longer have to make the picture on the box, but are free to construct or own destiny in our martial arts held in check by the laws and principles of the basics.

The beautiful thing with LEGOS is that you can buy different sets and they all “click together.” you can buy a Spaceship Set and combine it with a Castle Set. With the additional blocks unique combinations can be made that would not be available with either set on its own. The same can be said with the FMA. You can learn from somebody in Arnis and learn from somebody in Karate. Some concepts will be the same and some may contrast. It is part of your growth in the art to go through the process of comparing, combining, discarding and modifying what works for you. The reason why this works in an FMA structure is the concept of flowing. The same way my daughter learned that the little round nubs on the top of the LEGOs fit on the bottom of another block, the flow in Arnis teaches how to connect the techniques. You are in fact not only learning techniques, but a method of building that transcends the techniques.

Well, my daughter is older now and has since moved on to more advanced LEGO sets in the 5-6 year old age range. The pieces are smaller and some of the shapes are more complex, but the fundamentals of how to connect them remain the same.

Edited June 20, 2006 by ArnisAndyz

[Flexmoney]

I started to type some more the other day, but stopped...as I am getting quite a bit out of the various perspectives.

[Flexmoney]

OK...a while back I heard a perspective on flowing that I didn't expect. Anymore, I don't get caught off guard too much or too often...but I sure did here. (And, I apologize to the ladies that may associate with this term in a completely different manner.)

[vluc]

Flowing is absorbing, then letting go. Arnis tagged it for me. We see what others do (note the forum questions for how to do certain things), we copy/try it, then as time goes on see/try different things, then find we have developed a unique style that works for us based on who we are and where we are. We continually tweak it, but for me, my success have come when my flow lets me go.

Wow...good stuff.

[Flexmoney]

OK..there is a ton of good stuff on this thread. I didn't want to ruin that by posting what I was talking about when I stated "flowing is a form of stability"...but, now it's time.

When we talk about a shooting platform...for delivering more than one shot...a stable platform allows us to get to the next shot quickly and accurately.

What I see with many shooters is...they would often be best served by planting and getting into a nice stable and repeatable platform to deliver their volley of shots (pick a spot and do some shooting...then move on to the next spot).

Many/most shooters (or tennis players..or golfers..or basketball players) often have trained well enough to execute "their shot" from a specific positioning/stance. It is what they know. It is what they have trained. It is the highest percentage shot for them to take.

Then, you'll see the likes of Chris Tilley, Todd Jarret, Dave Sevigny go through a stage while shooting on the move. And, they do it well. A (lessor skilled?) shooter might see them shoot a stage and think that they ought to try that shooting on the move stuff...as it seems to be the best way to shoot the stage. After all, the top dogs just did it that way.

These top shooters have learned how to be stable while performing their shooting duties on the move, while setting up into a position, while leaving a position, etc.

Other shooters won't have the stability to hit a reload as they take their first step...to take a shot as they settle into a position...to take a shot as their gun extends out on the draw...to shoot while being off balance while leaning around a prop...

We can know the steps in the Waltz, but that doesn't mean we've learned how to dance.

Flowing...moving smoothly and efficiently...can provide a stable platform which can allow us to more easily execute the tasks involved in completing a course of fire.

(that is my 2 cents...hope it came out OK)

[Calamity Jane]

When we talk about a shooting platform...for delivering more than one shot...a stable platform allows us to get to the next shot quickly and accurately.

Flowing...moving smoothly and efficiently...can provide a stable platform which can allow us to more easily execute the tasks involved in completing a course of fire.

Yep this is good stuff. You know who I think is one of the best shooters that "flows" as defined as moving smoothly and efficiently from a stable platform....Julie Goloski. Go to JulieGoloski.com and watch her on video. Her movement is a beautiful thing to watch.

I guess it goes to show ya....women know how to flow. (insert tongue in cheek icon)

[edit to add live link]

Edited July 12, 2006 by Flexmoney

[shred]

Max Michel Jr. is probably king of the stop-n-shooters. It looks so good and flowy because he only stays still for exactly as long as he needs.

[Radical Precision Designs]

Well I see and understand it for what comes out as a free act, during execution. It can be "flowing" or "f l o w i n g" or "F L O W I N G" and even yet, "flwng". Time/timing is inconsequential and adaptable to the need. But as visualized the "F" will be followed by the "L", and the "G" will be preceded by the "N". That is unless you are faced with something not expected in which case it becomes a variation of "flwng". Yet, your demeanor remains unperturbed and consistent through out your execution.

[Sandro]

OK..there is a ton of good stuff on this thread. I didn't want to ruin that by posting what I was talking about when I stated "flowing is a form of stability"...but, now it's time.

When we talk about a shooting platform...for delivering more than one shot...a stable platform allows us to get to the next shot quickly and accurately.

What I see with many shooters is...they would often be best served by planting and getting into a nice stable and repeatable platform to deliver their volley of shots (pick a spot and do some shooting...then move on to the next spot).

Many/most shooters (or tennis players..or golfers..or basketball players) often have trained well enough to execute "their shot" from a specific positioning/stance. It is what they know. It is what they have trained. It is the highest percentage shot for them to take.

Then, you'll see the likes of Chris Tilley, Todd Jarret, Dave Sevigny go through a stage while shooting on the move. And, they do it well. A (lessor skilled?) shooter might see them shoot a stage and think that they ought to try that shooting on the move stuff...as it seems to be the best way to shoot the stage. After all, the top dogs just did it that way.

These top shooters have learned how to be stable while performing their shooting duties on the move, while setting up into a position, while leaving a position, etc.

Other shooters won't have the stability to hit a reload as they take their first step...to take a shot as they settle into a position...to take a shot as their gun extends out on the draw...to shoot while being off balance while leaning around a prop...

We can know the steps in the Waltz, but that doesn't mean we've learned how to dance.

Flowing...moving smoothly and efficiently...can provide a stable platform which can allow us to more easily execute the tasks involved in completing a course of fire.

(that is my 2 cents...hope it came out OK)

I have being looking for an answer for quite some time now. When shooting during practice or shooting a stage I "experienced" the difference between a good and a bad run. It feels completely different. I then started wondering why... I think I found the answer while researching.

Shooting IPSC "competitively" you will always be on the edge of your own capabilities. Some have more abilities than others. I realize this, but this is some how an individual analysis. You have to experience it to understand. But the answer to my shooting experience, good and bad runs, good or bad shoots is control without trying. Now, control without trying is applicable to all parts of the shooting IPSC.

Now I am looking for an answer how to overcome it? How can I not try consistently and have every shot being the same good dejavu. I think NOT being so mechanically orientated is the route to take, but trigger pull is so important. But to me it is the most mechanical aspect of shooting at high speed. Pulling the trigger can vary in speed but not the other way, so it's not flexible therefore it is mechanical.

Sandro

[Chris Tilley]

Flowing is a by-product of minimizing movement and thought processes in a stage. In fact that is what good technique is all about minimizing movement!

DvC,

Chris Tilley

[Steve Moneypenny]

To me flowing has a lot of different meanings.

In this instance i feel flowing would be a smooth seamless transition from one thing to the next. My studies of tai chi have done some interesting things in shooting. I wish i had more time to train and really figure it out!

yes, max is the king of "position" shooting I think that styles can vastly contrast with equal efficiency dependant up on body type and mind set.

[Pittbug]

Flowing is anticipation with no hesitation.

[Micah]

Flowing is happiness! If I flow through a stage, I feel confident of my hits, which in turn makes me feel happy ! Flowing and positive reflection go hand in hand.

[wide45]

Flowing is continual motion, or change. Never being static.

[Flexmoney]

"Life is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it." - Tom Lehrer

I was re-reading this today and that post made me LOL.

True though.

[Flexmoney]

Max Michel Jr. is probably king of the stop-n-shooters. It looks so good and flowy because he only stays still for exactly as long as he needs.

Yeah, Max is a good example of a hitting a position and being "less sticky" in that position...a soft setup...rolling through...etc.

[Flexmoney]

...

But the answer to my shooting experience, good and bad runs, good or bad shoots is control without trying. Now, control without trying is applicable to all parts of the shooting IPSC.

Now I am looking for an answer how to overcome it? How can I not try consistently and have every shot being the same good dejavu.

...

Sandro

I was watching some videos from one of the shooters on this forum (which is what got me to looking up this thread). He seems to be having an issue with trigger freeze from time to time. Another upper-level local shooter...who is awesome on Steel Challenge...struggles a bit with trigger freeze on the USPSA stuff.

Individually, I think they have different causes to their trigger freeze. As a whole, the root cause...when I study it...would seem to be coming from tension.

- Trying leads to tension. I know that one of the shooters is "trying" to shoot fast splits.

- Tension for the other shooter likely comes from wanting to shoot the whole stage faster. More specifically, I am guessing they aren't following through on the task they are on...allowing attention to shift off to the "next thing"...lack of follow through.

In either case, I think the answer boils down to simple execution of the fundamentals. And, to support that, we must trust that executing the fundamentals will give us the results that we seek. If we are in conflict with that, we will try...or skip ahead of ourselves (lack follow through). Trust in the fundamentals.

[benos]

In either case, I think the answer boils down to simple execution of the fundamentals. And, to support that, we must trust that executing the fundamentals will give us the results that we seek. If we are in conflict with that, we will try...or skip ahead of ourselves (lack follow through). Trust in the fundamentals.

Absolutely - nice.

I can remember WAY back, when I had my first few trigger freezes, and wondering - why doesn't that ever happen in practice? It took me awhile to figure out that it happened simply because I was trying to go fast. Which meant that I did not understand that just shooting at the natural speed I had trained to was all I needed to do.

It was also around that time that I realized followthrough was the first and most easily eroded fundamental under match pressure.

See each step to its end. Then you'll be ready to see the next step's beginning... and so on. Until there is no beginning nor ending.

And then you can converse with Chuang Tzu:

Now I am going to make a statement here. I don't know whether it fits into the category of other people's statements or not. But whether it fits into their category or whether it doesn't, it obviously fits into some category. So in that respect it is no different from their statements. However, let me try making my statement.

There is a beginning. There is a not yet beginning to be a beginning. There is a not yet beginning to be a not yet beginning to be a beginning. There is being. There is nonbeing. There is a not yet beginning to be nonbeing. There is a not yet beginning to be a not yet beginning to be nonbeing. Suddenly there is being and nonbeing. But between this being and nonbeing, I don't really know which is being and which is nonbeing. Now I have just said something. But I don't know whether what I have said has really said something or whether it hasn't said something.

There is nothing in the world bigger than the tip of an autumn hair, and Mount T'ai is little. No one has lived longer than a dead child, and P'eng-tsu died young. Heaven and earth were born at the same time I was, and the ten thousand things are one with me.

We have already become one, so how can I say anything? But I have just said that we are one, so how can I not be saying something? The one and what I said about it make two, and two and the original one make three. If we go on this way, then even the cleverest mathematician can't tell where we'll end, much less an ordinary man. If by moving from nonbeing to being we get to three, how far will we get if we move from being to being? Better not to move, but to let things be!

be

[eerw]

wow...great thread...really glad to see this come up again.

Love these two statements..thanks for popping this back to the top

Trust in the fundamentals.

See each step to its end. Then you'll be ready to see the next step's beginning... and so on. Until there is no beginning nor ending.

[h2osport]

Man, I did not know that USPSA was going to be such a philosophical study.

At this point for me I am just trying to simplify everything into "doing". No questioning! This includes no second guessing, no yielding to possible negative outcomes, no self imposed limits.

When I started shooting USPSA, I wanted to shoot fast like all of the people I watched. I did not have the speed and accuracy to do this resulting in lots of mikes. Then I wanted to have mike free matches. As I have developed I can see my abilities more clearly. I find that I do not question my ability and therefore my stage plans seem to flow more. A course of fire is a thing that needs to be done. It is one thing, and I want to do that one thing in its entirety. I want one plan for that course of fire with one beginning, one middle(doing) and one end. The more beginnings, middles and ends, the more time it will take.

As simple of a plan as my brain can come up with, but it is working for me at this time.

Randy

[eerw]

In Shooting Sports USA magazine

from gold medalist Launi Meili

“When we have a ‘flow’ experience, the mind and body are working on ‘automatic pilot’ and the shooter is in a state where trust, intuition, belief and perfection all come together. It’s as if the shooter is acting as the CEO of a corporation. A CEO doesn’t perform each individual task in the company. Rather, they ensure that all the components are working together to achieve a single purpose—in our case, a perfect shot.

“For me to get into and maintain ‘flow,’ I used a practiced routine and a controlled start that became very automatic. I initiated it with the words ‘just let it go’ before I even picked up my gun. This meant a lot in my routine. It shut out past shots from my current task; released any tension in my body; and got me ready to focus on the next hold/sight picture. When I was ready to actually take the shot, my training had placed somewhere in the back of my mind the image of the sight picture that I wanted to react to.

“Flow is a fun and satisfying state in which to shoot. Some days it may come easily and some days not at all. If you have to really work to physically manage your hold and performance, then there’s a good chance you won’t get into flow that day. When ‘non-flow’ days occur, you should be prepared to not beat yourself up about it, and have a backup, mechanical routine and shot plan that you trust. This is a sport, so some days your body is going to act like it doesn’t want any part of settling down and holding the way you want it to, and other days when it comes naturally.

"Getting back into the zone" page 16

[STI2011]

I hadn't seen this thread before today - Wow!

Last week I had one of those moments of clarity and just before shooting a stage I told myself to "relax, there is nothing you haven't seen or shot dozens of times before" and, on the spot, I came up a new pre-stage statement to tell myself as I step into the box. "Just let go and let it flow" meaning don't think about it, just let your subconsious take over and do what you already know how to do. I had a nice clean run and ended up winning that stage on the night which I have only done a couple times before.