I Hate Ffl Dealers...

[mpolans]

...that make you feel like a damn criminal when doing a firearms transfer...especially when you're paying them!!!

Two out of the last three dealers have made me feel like crap. The first, when I filling out the ethnicity portion of the 4473, was giving me crap for checking more than one box (it says check all that apply). FFL dealer asks, "Are you sure?" Give me a break!

Then I get a dealer who's giving me the third degree because there's a one character typo in my second form of ID (VA technically requires two forms of ID...this is the *only* dealer I've had ask for a second form so far). Now I know the law requires them to be identical, but it's not like my physical identity, residency, or exact physical address is in question. He doesn't know me personally, but it's not like he's never seen me around. In fact, I used to shoot IPSC regularly at a former establishment he worked at (and where I also worked, albeit in a different department). And yet after waiting 30 days (another VA technicality requiring a license to be at least 30 days old to be used as an ID for a transfer), taking off work early, driving an hour or so in rush hour traffic to their store, I was worried that I wasn't going to get my gun. Fortunately, after frantically looking through my car I was able to find another form of ID or they probably would've held my gun hostage and I probably would have had to take off early again, spend another extra hour in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic to deal with these folks!

I will NEVER deal with these folks again!

It just chaps my ass when I hear many folks suggest we should support local gun businesses or they'll go out of business and I run into folks like the above who make me wish they would go under.

Edited May 13, 2006 by mpolans

[driver8M3]

i'm a member at an indoor range/gun store near my house. take a guess what they wanted to charge me to have a glock that i had won transferred to them....

$100...seriously...and i'm a member...

[Vlad]

One of my local dealers wanted to charge me $80 plus NICS to transfer a $69 Mauser a few years back. A laughed out loud. Luckily we do have a few decent FFL in the area.

[MikeFoley]

A shop where I am doing some work charges $30 for transfers, and is happy to do them. They feel like it brings someone into the store, where other items that compliment the gun are sold. Also, it is easy money as it takes only 2 minutes. I hear lots of horror stories, but since I have been working with this shop, it has been all smiles. BTW, they have been in the same location for 32 years with the same owners.

[warpspeed]

We have several here in SoCal that fit ito both catagories - Fair priced / good service and over prices asshats. It seems you can tell them apart just by the fees they charge. Makes it easy I guess

[mpolans]

For the last dealer the price was fair I just felt they treated me like crap.

[Rob Boudrie]

My local dealer (located deep behind enemy lines in Massachusetts) doesn't mind transfers ($40 each), since his customers can't beat his prices by buying "quantity one" as an unknown customer to a distributor - which pretty much limits his transfers to those ordering an exotic gun, buying an obscure one like a S&W 610 from a gunbroker.com dealer, or priavte interstate transfers. No wonder his shop is so crowded on wekeends that customers have to find a spare stack of ammo crates to fill out a 4473 while waiting their turn in line (yup, a line to fill out purchase paperwork - sort of like a little oasis in the desert).

Dealers who think transfer customers are "ripping them off" rank right up there in my book with dealers who won't quote prices over the phone.

[smokshwn]

I feel very lucky. For a while I was putting up with the same kinds of dealer crap, but I have found NIRVANA. A local guy who flies a corporate jet for a living is way into Class 3 toys. He has set up a gun club and you pay him a one time fee of $25 yes that's it $25 and he does as many transfers as you may need. He is totally conscientious and easy to deal with. I am glad all the old dealer BS is done.

Good luck, Craig

[Kevin Kline]

Its a shame they have to be that way. When I had my FFL several years ago, I did transfers all the time. It wasnt like it was that time consuming or problematic paperwork. I charged even less than $30, a lot less, and still did them. Just gouging when they get the chance.

[rubberneck]

Count me as one of the lucky ones. I use a FFL here in Jersey that charges $20 for a transfer fee and is glad to do them. Not only will he do the transfer without questions but on new guns only adds $25 to dealer cost if you buy from him. His FFL is only a small side business for him but I am lucky to have a dealer who is pleasant to deal with. I can't remember the last time I bought a gun from a large firearms retailer.

[HSMITH]

There is a gunshop less than 5 minutes from my house, they want $80 for the transfer OR 10% of the value of the gun, but since they don't want to be jerks they will take the lesser of those two figures if the gun is worth more than $800. Yup, that is EXACTLY what I was told!! Complete asshats. I drive 40 minutes south or 40 minutes west to deal with a guy that actually APPRECIATES my business. Both of the guys I use charge $25 for a transfer, and thank me for the business.

Guess where I send all my friends? The shop near my house has probably lost over 40 transfers between me and my friends since they told me the prices, yet they piss and moan about not making enough money all the time.

I hate businessmen (FFL's) that don't know how to serve their customers too!!!

[Scooter]

I went through the same crap before also. After numerous phone calls I ended up finding this guy who said, "you shoot at the IPSC matches, right?" Well you can figure the rest out.

[Rob Boudrie]

There is a gunshop less than 5 minutes from my house, they want $80 for the transfer OR 10% of the value of the gun, but since they don't want to be jerks they will take the lesser of those two figures if the gun is worth more than $800. Yup

That's very reasonable IF:

1. The dealer, not you, pays the cash to the vendor and accepts the risk of non-performance from the vendor; you finding one elsewhere if the shipment is delayed; etc.

2. The dealer does not expect you to accept, or pay, for the gun if it turns out to be a less than pristine specimin.

Dealers earn their markup by stocking the inventory, fronting the cash, and taking the business risk. When you remove their risk, it doesn't seem reasonable to pay the same premium.

Of course, if you're looking over guns they have in the shop and then trying to do a "transfer order" on an identical model, I can understand their attitude. I have yet to find a shop witn an extensive selection of JP, SVI, STI, Wilson and 50BMG firearms available for in-stock purchases though .

[HSMITH]

Rob, that is just for a transfer. Say I see an ad here for one of your guns and we settle on a price. I send you the money and you ship it to them to transfer to me, $80 is their price.

I am not against them making money, but for one FREE phone call and 5 minutes of paperwork $80 is ludicrous. Doctors and layers don't usually hit you that hard.

[2alpha]

You'd really hate to be the FFL when the ATF stops buy to rip him a new one for those little typos on form 4473.

[cpty1]

Thought I'd chime in on this thread. I have a FFL and do transfers for $25. I think this is a reasonable fee in my situation. I'm not about to try to justify anyone elses fees but can tell you why I charge what I do. In Georgia there are some additional license fees that are required in addition to the FFL. I'm sure each state has it's own unique requirements. You can do transfers in GA with only a FFL if you only want to transfer or sell long guns. If handguns are brought into the mix, then a state firearms license is required. This isn't a big expense at about $38 a year. However, in order to get the state license, you have to be insured and bonded. This is another $100 annual fee and the paperwork at least in my situation is not simplistic. These forms have to be notarized as well, which is another small expense, but more of a hassle than anything. I've had my FFL for about two and a half years. I got the FFL for CPWSA business purposes. In that time I've transferred nearly 450 guns. I am required by ATF to keep every 4473 form for 20 years. That's a long time. At the current rate, I will have a closet full of 4473 forms in 17 more years. Storage of the forms is already getting to be an issue and will be even more so as time goes by. Then lastly, as mentioned above, the inconvenience of having ATF show up at least once a year, or in reality, any time they darn well choose to do an inspection. This plays into the storage issue, because the forms have to be readily available during the inspection. While there may be some states where all you need is a FFL to transfer any hand gun or long gun, there could be some other states where even more paperwork, licenses, and fees are required. I'm not saying there aren't FFLs out there trying to send their kids thru college on a few transfer fees. I will tell you it ain't a bed of roses.

[Nebraskan]

When I got my STI, a small local shop did the transfer for $15.00! Just a little hole in the wall that deals in black powder stuff. I didn't even know he existed until I was referred to him for a transfer. Ask around. You never know what you will find.

[Merlin Orr]

My FFL, Buffalo Sporting Goods charges me $25.00 most of the time. Sometimes when I go to pick up a gun he buys me lunch and does the transfer free. I guess I am very lucky to have a friend who is my dealer......

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

layers don't usually hit you that hard.

Depends on how good she is and what she hits you with

(couldn't resist cause I am a bad person)

[abs]

I am an FFL dealer and I can assure you, it's no big deal to transfer a firearm. It's evan easier now since the feds will let us fax an FFL to an other dealer.

[gmshtr]

The real scam are the guys at the big gun matches. After attending a few of these, I begged Mike V to move the Nationals to VA just once while I had my FFL. $30/gun doesn't sound like a lot, until you realize that some matches have 50 guns/frames or more to dispurse! $1500 just to write the name of a dealer and their FFL# in the bound book! WOW! That's something!

[EricW]

I'm OK with fees ranging from $25 to $40. That's a fair price for someone's time who does it as a business. I don't see too many people who are self-employed in the gun business driving Lambourghinis to work.

[Bigbadaboom]

Man, I must be really lucky. My favorite FFL (A&N Shooting Sports in Sanford Florida. Everyone in the area should buy from Bert) Charges me the cost of the shipping for transfers out and the $5.00 call in fee for transfers in (I always tip him).

I buy all my factory guns from him and recommend him to anyone who mentions that they may be purchasing a gun.

[raz-0]

Worst examples of FFLs I have run into.

Advetrtised on gunbroker as doing transfers for $45, get there and they say "oh, you aren't a member, it's $65." Needless to say, I've never been back there.

Other bad one advertised as transfers for $40. Wanted the money up front before sending the ink signed FFL. Apparantly it wasn't worth fronting the sheet of paper and the $0.37 stamp because I might not pay up and he'd be stuck with a $1000 gun. A truly brilliant man. Actually, he didn't grasp the concept. Was also only available about 4 hours per week to accept the money up front. Didn't appreciate it when I said if you didn't really want to do transfers, you shouldn't advertise, and that would pretty much solve the problem.