Plated Bullets In .45 Revolvers?

[Carmoney]

I really like shooting cast bullets, and I used them in competition all last year, but I will admit I'm getting sick of the extra cleaning hassles. Most of the time the smoke from the wax lube doesn't bother me, but there were a couple stages at big matches last year where the smoke really hung in the air to the point it was noticeable. Plus, my 625 shoots great with cast lead, but the 25-2 (like every other 25-2 I've been around) spits 'em sideways, to the point of keyholing at 10 yards!

I don't want the extra cost of shooting jacketed stuff, plus I'd kinda like to maintain the softer recoil impulse of shooting lead, and would prefer not to change my load.

I've shot some plated bullets in the past through my revolvers, and I don't remember having any particular accuracy problems, but then I'm not always very careful to bench-test stuff--I tend to just step out back and if I can keep a cylinder-full on a small plate at 30 yards off-hand I call it good.

What kind of experience have you guys had with plated bullets, particularly in terms of accuracy?

Mike

[Waltermitty]

I really like shooting cast bullets, and I used them in competition all last year, but I will admit I'm getting sick of the extra cleaning hassles. Most of the time the smoke from the wax lube doesn't bother me, but there were a couple stages at big matches last year where the smoke really hung in the air to the point it was noticeable. Plus, my 625 shoots great with cast lead, but the 25-2 (like every other 25-2 I've been around) spits 'em sideways, to the point of keyholing at 10 yards!

I don't want the extra cost of shooting jacketed stuff, plus I'd kinda like to maintain the softer recoil impulse of shooting lead, and would prefer not to change my load.

I've shot some plated bullets in the past through my revolvers, and I don't remember having any particular accuracy problems, but then I'm not always very careful to bench-test stuff--I tend to just step out back and if I can keep a cylinder-full on a small plate at 30 yards off-hand I call it good.

What kind of experience have you guys had with plated bullets, particularly in terms of accuracy?

Mike

I have used Berry's and am using some now to make a determination about the rest of this season. I like lead 230gr bullets too, but I'm testing the 185 gr HBRN bullets to see if I can achieve improved cleanliness, flatter trajectory for those 50 - 75 yard standards that have been popping up lately, and I can get down to an ICORE minor load more practically using the same bullets and powder.

They are definately snappier at major power factor. My hypothesis regarding accuracy is that the hollow base *should* tend to expand and better engage the rifling. Right this minute I am not convinced the tradeoffs in cost and recoil are worth it.

[spook]

I shoot Frontier in my 625. 230 grain copper plated. I am also not much of a bench tester, but I can hit the upper A-zone @20yds all day long with these bullets.

[DougCarden]

Mike, remind me, I have a 100 pack of 230 Berrys with 4.0 CLAYS loaded up that you can test in your Revo. They were just fine in my autos, but never shot them in the 625....

[pskys2]

Mike, if your having trouble with spitting try a Clymer Taylor Throat Reamer, Brownells has them. They will increase your velocity (20-30 f/s in the .45) and tighten up the groups (reduces the flyers).

I don't notice much difference between Lead, Plated or Jacketed recoil in the Revo. Actually like the impulse of Jacketed the best right now, seems to track better.

The cost of Midway Raniers (on sale now at 60/m) + shipping is right at $8/m less than Montana Gold's (78 vs 86-88). The Golds do seem a bit more accurate and have a rounder nose, the Raniers are kind of pointed while Berrys are also round. I noticed no difference between Ranier and Berry (other than price).

If everything is timed up good either bullet will work great. If your on the edge the softer Raniers will throw an occasional flyer. I use the same powder charge with either and I get more difference due to weather than the bullets.

Dave

[Carlos]

Spooke wrote: I shoot Frontier in my 625. 230 grain copper plated. I am also not much of a bench tester, but I can hit the upper A-zone @20yds all day long with these bullets.

I like Frontier.

Frontier = PLATED HARD CAST LEAD

Berrys/Ranier/Speer = swaged lead core which mean its soft, pure lead, not hardcast.

I have used the strange Berrys 185 grn Hollow Base (its as hollow as a blackpowder Minnie ball), the westcoast 200 rn and the frontier 230. I like the accuracy of the Frontier the best from my 625.

[cliffwalsh]

Mike,

I have used Rainiers for the last 3 years. I have not tried the others though. I had good results so I stuck with them. If you order 35000 (mixed), they will drop ship them to you at a good price.

[Keith]

Cliff,

Are you ordering directly from Rainier for that quantity?

I have also decided to go the plated route as my home range won't let me shoot anything other than all lead or plated bullets at the plate rack. I have gone with Rainier in the past without any problems. (as long as you don't overcrimp, anyway)

[Jerry V]

Mike,

I've found that Berry's is more accurate than Rainier (though still not as accurate as jacketed bullets). If you order directly from Berry's, shipping is free and their service is great

http://www.berrysmfg.com/categories/17-0.php

I'm also trying out the 185gr HBRN, have major & minor loads made up, just need to get out ot the range.

Jerry

[wlktheduk]

In 2005 I used a Zero jacketed 230 grain FMJ/RN over 4.6 of Titegroup for most of the year. In the fall I started loading up and testing some Rainier plated 230 grain RN over 4.0 of Clays.

In my 625, I really couldn't see any difference in accuracy, out to 50 yards. I checked from both off-hand, and using a shooting rest, to try to reduce the "shooter factor" Most of the errors were/are due to the loose nut behind the trigger.

Lower cost, and a slightly softer feel in recoil, so I am loading up a bunch more of the Rainiers.

YMMV (and I had good luck with a Rainier bullet for .38 special loads for IDPA and NRA Action pistol, so that's why I tried Rainier's first, haven't tried the Berry's yet)

[Keith]

Cliff,

Are you ordering directly from Rainier for that quantity?

I have also decided to go the plated route as my home range won't let me shoot anything other than all lead or plated bullets at the plate rack. I have gone with Rainier in the past without any problems. (as long as you don't overcrimp, anyway)

Never mind Cliff. I found their website.

[Canuck-IL]

I've found that Berry's is more accurate than Rainier

The Berry's are .452 while the Rainier's are .451.

I haven't bench tested them but common wisdom in Bullseye is that plated are adequate for 25 yards and totally unacceptable for 50...mind you, the Bullseye "A" zone is a hell of a lot smaller than in IPSC!

/Bryan

[zip308]

Does anyone have a problem with the Rainier bullets or any other plated bullet getting a compressed circle around the ogive of the bullet nose? I tried both bullet seating inserts in my Dillon dies and one left a ring around the ogive and the SWC left a dimple on the tip of the bullet. I am using new Winchester brass and have a pretty good bell in the case.

[Byron Simpson]

I've been quite happy with 230gr Raniers and Clays in my 625. So far, this seems to be the best balance of power factor and cleanliness that I have found. I would like to try some 230 LRN with Clays to see just how much dirtier it is over the plated Raniers. I can probably drop down a couple of tenths of powder charge with the lead and still make power factor, which may be a little softer.

I get dealer price on Rainers through Midway, and the price is usually quite good.

[Canuck-IL]

problem with the Rainier bullets or any other plated bullet getting a compressed circle around the ogive

Not with the Hornady seating die I use but Rainier's plating is a good deal softer than Berry's, Speer's or Montana Gold...the relatively soft plate and the pointier nose shape have caused problems for me in a couple of 1911s.

/Bryan

[R112mercer]

Everybody seems to have covered this pretty well (and has more experience with plated bullets, I might add...) but here's my $0.02:

I use Rainier 158 gr. PRN in my Eight Shooter using Short Colt loads (which seems to combine about every negative variable when you're looking for accuracy) and get very nice groups with no drama from the bullets.

I believe Rudy is using the 185 gr. RN with the hollowbase, and he seems to do just fine...

[cliffwalsh]

Does anyone have a problem with the Rainier bullets or any other plated bullet getting a compressed circle around the ogive of the bullet nose? I tried both bullet seating inserts in my Dillon dies and one left a ring around the ogive and the SWC left a dimple on the tip of the bullet. I am using new Winchester brass and have a pretty good bell in the case.

Zip,

The Rainiers have more of a point than other bullets. The top hits the top of the seater insert before the shoulder. I dont think the circle at the top make any difference in accuracy.

Keith,

You have to call or email and they will get you a price list that includes shipping to your area.

Cliff

[BadShot]

Hey Mike,

I've tried both Berry's and West Coast in my 625's. Both were slightly less accurate than lead bullets, but much cleaner. The last year I have been using Precision Bullets. These have a polymer coating. I find them to be as accurate as lead, but about as clean as plated. I went to them to avoid some of the contact from handling lead bullets.

Skip

[Waltermitty]

Hey Mike,

I've tried both Berry's and West Coast in my 625's. Both were slightly less accurate than lead bullets, but much cleaner. The last year I have been using Precision Bullets. These have a polymer coating. I find them to be as accurate as lead, but about as clean as plated. I went to them to avoid some of the contact from handling lead bullets.

Skip

I shot the Precision bullets until they went to the flat nose. I also had some problems with them backing out of the case. Don't know if it was because they were slicker or more compressible in the coating or what. I experienced huge variations in velocities because my COL was changing after every shot. Before I could work out a solution they changed the shape. I went ahead and tried 3k of the new shape, but felt they were slightly more prone to causing reload problems for me. I gave them up after that.

Except for the mess and the bullet drop at the rifle ranges that keep coming up, I wouldn't bother to consider anything other than 230 gr LRN.

[Carlos]

" believe Rudy is using the 185 gr. RN with the hollowbase, and he seems to do just fine..."

That is what he told me he was using just before he moved out of Area 8; forgot to ask him about his load at the Nationals as we got to talking about his new training job. I hope he gets back into wheelguns for the 2006 Nationals. Rudy is a great guy to be around. D.

[D.carden]

Rudy was using those 185 hbrn at the Nats too. Not sure what powder he was pushing it with.

I do remember the "tack" driving accuracy he brought with them.

He's PF was about 166.

Dan..

[Waltermitty]

Rudy was using those 185 hbrn at the Nats too. Not sure what powder he was pushing it with.

I do remember the "tack" driving accuracy he brought with them.

He's PF was about 166.

Dan..

He shot them at doubletap last year also. He was quite perturbed with his power factor at Nat's cause he was sure he had more margin than that. I never did hear what the problem was.

[hopalong]

Carmoney,

I'm as cheap as you are if not cheaper. But I told you a good long time ago about shooting lead in "big" matches.

Now, onto other type of bullets......

Rainiers are good, I shot them for a year(at big matches).

Precisions are good, I shot them for a little less than a year(at big matches)

I am now using Precision Delta bullets....FMJ with an open base....ACCURATE to say the least...only one close is the Montana Golds.

You notice I mentioned open base......That keeps them a little cheaper than TMJ as then you would require a gas check/plug at the bottom....and No I don't see any smoke or is it any dirtier than the Rainiers.

Precision Delta is the company in Mississippi that is now furnishing Ammo for USPSA at the major matches.

They originally catered to the BULLSEYE shooters and ACCURACY is a verry BIG thing to them (Bullseye shooters and Precision Delta)

Give Joe a call, tell him I sent you his way. He will fix you right up.

Hop

[cooper_999]

I´ve made best experiences with H&N Bullets in .452 dia with N320 out of my 625. Very accurate but in beetween a little bit pricey...

DVC!

Sascha

[Carmoney]

Preliminary Follow-Up:

OK, fellas, not hearing anything all that negative here I decided to give plated bullets a try. (I have used them briefly in the past in .357 and .40 calibers, but never in .45.) I've sent for dealer pricing info from Berry's and Midway, but in the meantime went ahead and bought a box of Rainier 230s on that $61/1000 deal that Midway's offering right now. Loaded a bunch with the same powder charge (4.1 of Clays) and the same seating depth--i.e. I didn't change anything on my press, just switched in the plated bullets. No problems loading.

It's too blustery out there today to do any serious accuracy testing, but I believe I have determined the following:

1. My chrono tells me there is no meaningful difference in velocity between the Rainiers and the RNL I've been using.

2. I cannot tell the difference in recoil impulse between the plated and cast lead in this load. Mix 'em in the same moonclip, can't tell which is which when they go bang.

3. The Rainiers are quite a bit more accurate than the RNL in the 25-2 (but keep in mind, that gun has never done well with lead bullets, and I believe that problem is typical for the old blue 25-2s, I think they were designed with shallow rifling or something). Again, it's a cold and windy bastard out there today, so all I'm doing is aiming for the center of my little plate, then repainting it between 6-shot strings, and roughly comparing the groups.

4. The Rainiers seem to create no lead build-up on the cylinder face and around the forcing cone, and the small amount of leading in my barrel from before is pretty well gone.

My conclusion is that plated bullets will definitely be an improvement in the 25-2 (which Sam will be shooting quite a bit this year). I'm looking forward to testing these in my 625 when it gets back from Ford's, and will report back on this later.

Mike

P.S. Dave, this old gun times well, and bench alignment is fine, but when actually shooting it the cylinder moves slightly to the left because the center-pin hole is kinda egged-out from the high mileage--this gun was quite well-used when I bought it in 1987, and it was my main pin/steel revolver for years. Can't take the action as light because primer hits tend to go a little off center, but I just sorta live with it. I've already reamed the forcing cone once, a long time ago, don't remember which degree cut I used.