gargoil66 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: Not sure what you mean about the TK work since 38 is typically 0.358 and 9mm is typically .355-6. My 929 barrel leads up with 9mm sized coated bullets, so I'm shooting .358, have wondered if boring the cylinder would be a good idea (still get occasional leading, I wonder if I'm scraping off coating before the bullet gets to the barrel assuming the cylinder unlike the barrel was sized for 9mm). Besides the right brass and the right moons I have had to be selective about bullets. 135 grain bayou coated worked well for me, the 160's I wanted to run I have never found a way to keep from walking. IHG: He probably means the cylinder. A 9mm is slightly larger in diameter at the web than a .38. So, the cylinder would have to be reamed out a little to take the 9mm brass. Yes, you could still shoot .38 SC / Spl but it would blow the brass out enough that the brass would probably no longer go into a .38 cylinder easily. However, that is my experience with a .38 Super and not a 9mm. Since 9mm ballistics can easily be achieved using .38 SC, .38 LC, and .38 Spl, reaming out a .38 cylinder to take 9mm is a serious reduction in capability. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: Not sure what you mean about the TK work since 38 is typically 0.358 and 9mm is typically .355-6. My 929 barrel leads up with 9mm sized coated bullets, so I'm shooting .358, have wondered if boring the cylinder would be a good idea (still get occasional leading, I wonder if I'm scraping off coating before the bullet gets to the barrel assuming the cylinder unlike the barrel was sized for 9mm). Besides the right brass and the right moons I have had to be selective about bullets. 135 grain bayou coated worked well for me, the 160's I wanted to run I have never found a way to keep from walking. The guns that I have had TK bore to 9mm come back able to shoot 38s with or without moon clips plus 9mm. All of my S&W revolvers shoot .358 bullets. That's whether they are 9mm or 38/357. I shoot either .358 Blue Bullets 147 or Bayou .358 135s or my buddy's .3575 powder coated 125s or 135s, and also Bayou 105 and 96 gr from my friend (for SC). I use the exact same reloading setup for all of my 9mm, (Lee U die, Lee FC crimp die) including when I load .355 for autos and PCC. The walking thing has not been a problem for a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 16 minutes ago, gargoil66 said: IHG: He probably means the cylinder. A 9mm is slightly larger in diameter at the web than a .38. So, the cylinder would have to be reamed out a little to take the 9mm brass. Yes, you could still shoot .38 SC / Spl but it would blow the brass out enough that the brass would probably no longer go into a .38 cylinder easily. However, that is my experience with a .38 Super and not a 9mm. Since 9mm ballistics can easily be achieved using .38 SC, .38 LC, and .38 Spl, reaming out a .38 cylinder to take 9mm is a serious reduction in capability. GG I did it because I am trying to mitigate the wear and tear on my poor old 929. I have a 586 Plus (I had a 7 shot cylinder installed about 15 years ago, moon clipped) and a newer 686 Plus that I can use for practice. No, the shooting of 38 does not seem to be a problem. If it ever is, I have some other 357 choices. 6 shots, also moon clipped. The 9mm seems like a good choice. Dry fire and live fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 4 hours ago, testosterone said: He was 58 in 2013 which is crazy, and yeah, he smashed rob on time but rob shot considerably better points. The math wasn't in his favor going forward with minor scoring. Not saying it was a sure thing he would start loosing, thats stupid, but given the lifetime performance he had, going out on a win made sense. Yes I agree 100%. Nothing is, or was guaranteed. PASA created stages that made for interesting match outcomes. I think deciding to walk away has to be one of the hardest decisions. Especially if it’s following a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gargoil66 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 11 hours ago, Dr. Phil said: I did it because I am trying to mitigate the wear and tear on my poor old 929. I have a 586 Plus (I had a 7 shot cylinder installed about 15 years ago, moon clipped) and a newer 686 Plus that I can use for practice. No, the shooting of 38 does not seem to be a problem. If it ever is, I have some other 357 choices. 6 shots, also moon clipped. The 9mm seems like a good choice. Dry fire and live fire. DP: Roger, but does the .38 brass you shot out of the 9mm chamber still go into a .38 chamber easily? My experience with a .38 Super is that once you shoot the .38 brass in the Super chamber, then resize it using standard .38 dies, that some of the brass no longer goes into the .38 chamber and most of the ones that do are difficult to chamber and extract. I have no problems shooting SC through my Super but I keep that brass segregated from SC I use in my .38 cal revolvers. To me, GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 I have not shot much 38 through the new bored cylinder as I did it for the reasons above plus the 686Plus moon clips are either .022 or .025. Mine are the .025. I am forever straightening them! The TK are .035 so they are much tougher. I will at some point try them and when I know you will know. LOL! Right now I am enjoying the 686. I really like the way the L frame handles. Same grips (Big Butt) same mount and dot. Lots of dry fire! FWIW I tried to go with the RIMZ but they are not available yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 On 5/20/2024 at 12:24 PM, MWP said: I think deciding to walk away has to be one of the hardest decisions. Especially if it’s following a win. I agree it had to be hard. The guy is a champion that really really likes winning and he wants to win in a way very few(like you) understand. I went to two ffl's today, big ops, one of them is a 10m a year local and another high volume and the sku is not showing up yet with distributors, but i'm on their lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted May 21 Share Posted May 21 (edited) On 5/20/2024 at 11:24 AM, MWP said: Yes I agree 100%. Nothing is, or was guaranteed. PASA created stages that made for interesting match outcomes. I think deciding to walk away has to be one of the hardest decisions. Especially if it’s following a win. From all I heard it was a business decision. The sponsorships and money was in Multi-Gun. How long it lasts? Who knows. Problem is age will catch up with all of us, even Jerry. Old man time is beating me over the head, I've survived a few of the bigger hits but it's the gradual decline that's the most frustrating. Edited May 21 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 I wonder also if another factor might have been that at that time S&W was divesting themselves of their big name factory shooters? I spoke with David O and Josh L at matches right after that and they said S&W called a quick meeting and said "bye bye, you're done here". They kept Jerry and Julie. Right around that time Jerry also was rocking the Mossberg. They also stopped sponsoring some bigger matches. Just curious as to why all of this began around the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 shooter Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 I remember Smith cutting shooters and matches. At one time it was said that Jerry had been cut but you can read/hear a lot that just ain’t so, even if it is on the internet. Maybe they put the bean counters in charge which might explain some other problems but then I’ve seen other companies afflicted the same way. As to the new wheel gun I’d buy it at twice the price if it would make me shoot half as good as Jerry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Dr. Phil said: I wonder also if another factor might have been that at that time S&W was divesting themselves of their big name factory shooters? I spoke with David O and Josh L at matches right after that and they said S&W called a quick meeting and said "bye bye, you're done here". They kept Jerry and Julie. Right around that time Jerry also was rocking the Mossberg. They also stopped sponsoring some bigger matches. Just curious as to why all of this began around the same time. Alot of changes happened at s&w in that era, locally the s&w shooting center stopped running idpa matches which it had historically done for many many years including the idpa indoor nationals which was among the most popular idpa matches of the year and not long after they shutdown the public range. That was the end of s&w significant sponsorship of ivore and irc as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 23 minutes ago, testosterone said: Alot of changes happened at s&w in that era, locally the s&w shooting center stopped running idpa matches which it had historically done for many many years including the idpa indoor nationals which was among the most popular idpa matches of the year and not long after they shutdown the public range. That was the end of s&w significant sponsorship of ivore and irc as well. This is eye opening. As someone who joined ICORE a little less than ten years ago, it has always been shocking to me that S&W has zero sponsorship presence. On the contrary, Ruger is a major sponsor despite the lack of competitor usage. At our match, we have a couple die hard GP100 users in Classic but the rest of us are S&W fans. Btw, last Saturday the match chatter over this gun was “too rich for my wallet.” But we are mostly retired guys (or soon to be) making do with the blasters acquired in our salad days. Maybe the next generation may bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyScuba Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) I’ve been regaled by a few here on this thread about the pallet of S&W revo’s dropped off as prizes back in the IRC Moro bay days. **sigh** Edited May 22 by MikeyScuba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Mcfoto said: This is eye opening. As someone who joined ICORE a little less than ten years ago, it has always been shocking to me that S&W has zero sponsorship presence. On the contrary, Ruger is a major sponsor despite the lack of competitor usage. At our match, we have a couple die hard GP100 users in Classic but the rest of us are S&W fans. Btw, last Saturday the match chatter over this gun was “too rich for my wallet.” But we are mostly retired guys (or soon to be) making do with the blasters acquired in our salad days. Maybe the next generation may bite. I am always surprised at all the Taurus sponsorship,, They dont have any suitable revolvers.. Its like there marketing people people, or people that decide what guns to sell dont have a clue.. I mean.. Hey we are spending XYZ sponsoring these matches,, why dont we make a gun someone would actually shoot at said match ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Eh, matches are down in the noise for most big corporations. CZ said they sold more Shadow 2's in a year than there are USPSA members, let alone the ~350 people at any major match. Spiffy fancy guns will sell. Check out all the people jumping on whatever Taran puts his name on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 My friend has both a Korth and Manhurin, both over rated, both $$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 14 hours ago, Mcfoto said: This is eye opening. As someone who joined ICORE a little less than ten years ago, it has always been shocking to me that S&W has zero sponsorship presence. On the contrary, Ruger is a major sponsor despite the lack of competitor usage. At our match, we have a couple die hard GP100 users in Classic but the rest of us are S&W fans. Btw, last Saturday the match chatter over this gun was “too rich for my wallet.” But we are mostly retired guys (or soon to be) making do with the blasters acquired in our salad days. Maybe the next generation may bite. There is a particular guy who is probably the nicest guy in the entire firearms industry, he is a big advocate that competition shooting feeds the community in a vital way, that accounts for what you noticed. He left s&w to go to ruger. If you want the history from his perspective... Google S3 E14- Behind the Lens with Paul Pluff Hunters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 11 hours ago, shred said: Eh, matches are down in the noise for most big corporations. CZ said they sold more Shadow 2's in a year than there are USPSA members, let alone the ~350 people at any major match. Spiffy fancy guns will sell. Check out all the people jumping on whatever Taran puts his name on. Local story is that it wasnt about the money, it was about risk management, what was the point, we crank out plastic guns for police departments, this match stuff is irrelevant etc.... They were opening up there test ranges(which are WAY bigger than your typical indoor range). To the public to run around and shoot every Thursday night, the people running it were not even s&w employees. There were mgmt changes, new execs and lawyers got wind of what was happening and freaked out, the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 15 hours ago, Joe4d said: I am always surprised at all the Taurus sponsorship,, They dont have any suitable revolvers.. Its like there marketing people people, or people that decide what guns to sell dont have a clue.. I mean.. Hey we are spending XYZ sponsoring these matches,, why dont we make a gun someone would actually shoot at said match ? Taurus is releasing an unported 8-round revolver this year for USPSA/IPSC/ICORE Limited—it was very strongly hinted on a few podcasts, and I've seen pictures that I don't know if I can share, but it says 'Competition' in big block letters on the side of the barrel. Not sure if 9mm, .38, or both. They expect a street price of about $750. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21 shooter Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 If Taurus can exceed or at least match the QC of a Smith they will have a winner. My 627 was over a grand, getting its equal for much less would be great. Competition amongst companies is good for consumers as long as the bean counters aren’t given to much say so about it. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 16 hours ago, Joe4d said: Taurus sponsorship Sort of, sort of not. Depending on whos counting, Taurus is the largest small arms mfg in the world and produces more revolvers than any other mfg.... Even if people arent shooting there guns in matches they are buying alot of their guns, its pretty clear they could build a gun as good as anyone else if they chose to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 43 minutes ago, 21 shooter said: If Taurus can exceed or at least match the QC of a Smith they will have a winner. My 627 was over a grand, getting its equal for much less would be great. Competition amongst companies is good for consumers as long as the bean counters aren’t given to much say so about it. LOL got nothing to do with QC,, they have no suitable models,, the ones that come close are all 7 shots. Even the moon clip loading 9mm's. I am probably the only person in the world ok with a 7 shot for ICORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfoto Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 https://www.taurususa.com/revolvers/medium-frame-revolvers/taurus-608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 That gun is ported. Would that be open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 52 minutes ago, Dr. Phil said: That gun is ported. Would that be open? yeh would need a dot and cut for moons, if you can get any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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