2011 frame battering? recoil spring?

[motosapiens]

a few weeks ago I replaced the original wolf 8 lb recoil spring with a sprinco 8 lb spring, since the local shop doesn’t appear to be carrying wolf anymore. Earlier today the gun was a bit balky to field strip, like the slide was sticking a few mm forward of the normal in-battery position, but i was able to use a little force and slide it all the way forrward to disassemble. on inspection I noticed some metal shavings in the space behind where the guide rod seats against the frame. The attached pic is looking at that area from the front of the frame. Looks like maybe a little wear or battering? Any idea what could be happening? i clean the gun every 250-300 rds and never noticed anything like this before 

 

I noticed the sprinco spring has a few less coils, and for now I replaced it with a wolf 9 lb spring i had as a spare, but im wondering if this issue could be caused by a spring that is too short or too light or if I should be looking for something else. I didn’t see anything else out of the ordinary when inspecting. 

[NorthwestGuy]

Order an 8 pound Wolff gun spring directly from https://www.gunsprings.com/

[motosapiens]

got the springs ordered, but further inspection and troubleshooting suggests a possibly different cause. it turns out what i thought were metal shavings might actually be polishing media. we got a batch of jhps that have a significant amount of polishing compound and media clogging up the hollows. not entirely sure how that stuff is making it into the frame, but after shooting sunday and field stripping the gun, thats what it looks like. so i spent an hour or so cleaning out the hollows on the rest of those bullets, which was even less enjoyable than it sounds.

[zzt]

Yeah, HAPs are notorious for that.  I used to clean them out with the equivalent of a dental pick.  Later I found it did not affect accuracy, so I quit.  The Zero clones of that bullet do not have the problem.  Nor do Everglades or PD.

[Dr Mitch]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:10 PM, motosapiens said:

got the springs ordered, but further inspection and troubleshooting suggests a possibly different cause. it turns out what i thought were metal shavings might actually be polishing media. we got a batch of jhps that have a significant amount of polishing compound and media clogging up the hollows. not entirely sure how that stuff is making it into the frame, but after shooting sunday and field stripping the gun, thats what it looks like. so i spent an hour or so cleaning out the hollows on the rest of those bullets, which was even less enjoyable than it sounds.

This same crap was happening to my open gun 

last week.  What a nightmare.

[motosapiens]

On 4/23/2024 at 8:39 AM, zzt said:

Yeah, HAPs are notorious for that.  I used to clean them out with the equivalent of a dental pick.  Later I found it did not affect accuracy, so I quit.  The Zero clones of that bullet do not have the problem.  Nor do Everglades or PD.

i don’t mind a few flakes here and there, but this particular batch was unusual. 5-8% of the bullets were completely filled with what appeared to be dried polishing compound and media flakes. i had quite a pile of refuse when i. was done cleaning. I wrote to the mfr about about it and it looks they are going to replace the remaining 1800 bullets. fwiw we have sot 8-10k of these same bullets previously without issues, so this appears to just be a bad batch.

Edited April 24 by motosapiens

[shred]

It's real fun when you're shooting a 9x25 Dillon and a media chunk gets in the chamber shoulder so rounds won't quiiite chamber.

 

[zzt]

6 hours ago, motosapiens said:

I wrote to PD about it but haven’t heard back. fwiw we have sot 8-10k of these same bullets previously without issues, so this appears to just be a bad batch.

 

Hope so.  I just received 4900 115 JHP V2s.  Just started to load them.  So far, no gunk.

[Bravo_Victor]

Been shooting PD bullets for some time and they always have s#!t shoved inside the HP every so often. Never had it affect accuracy or get stuck inside anything. 

[beastmode_05]

if it had less coils you can check to be sure its still the correct length my fully compressing the guide rod foreward also a shock buff doesnt hurt atlas has a video on youtube showing how to check

[Maximis228]

That is wear point in the frame from your guide rod. That was going to happen eventually regardless of the springs you were using. 

[Maximis228]

10 hours ago, beastmode_05 said:

 also a shock buff doesnt hurt atlas has a video on youtube showing how to check

 

Shock buffs in open guns is asking for a problem unless you swap them out all the time. 

[barry]

I find shock buffs in open 38 super lasts 10000 rounds

[Maximis228]

1 minute ago, barry said:

I find shock buffs in open 38 super lasts 10000 rounds

When I first started I saw more shock buffs flatten at the worst time (Majors). I've tested them myself and I saw flattening on plastic and aluminum buffs in around 1,000 rounds. Not worth the effort IMO. 

[CocoBolo]

I have one frame on its 4th Barrel and 3rd slide, it started life as a Briley in the early 90's, 38Super converted to 9 Maj @2010 call it 400,000 rounds.  No shock buff in this girl, but having lived and learned over time I use a 9# or 10# spring.   I use IMSI springs mostly however I have run Wolf in the past.   While you might perfer the feel of the 8#, have you ever run 500 rounds without a single hiccup?  Using lighter springs tends to cause more feeding issues, have been at matches and loaned a 10# spring to another shooter that was polishing the handle on the slide racker.  IMHO just an opinion.  I normaly shoot about 172-175pf with 124gr.  I change springs every time I open a newcase of primer.  Mag springs annually unless needed sooner. 

Edited May 1 by CocoBolo

[shred]

Buffs behind alumabuffs in my 38SC Dawson Open guns.   7 or 8 lb springs, 125gr bullets.  Solid reliable for me, buffs last a long time and won a lot of matches and got a G card with that same setup.  

 

[RangerTrace]

6 hours ago, shred said:

Buffs behind alumabuffs in my 38SC Dawson Open guns.   7 or 8 lb springs, 125gr bullets.  Solid reliable for me, buffs last a long time and won a lot of matches and got a G card with that same setup.  

 

Thanks to Shred, I ran this same setup in 6" and 5.4" SV guns.  None of my current 2011s have enough room to run double buffs though.

[frankge]

Compressed air will take care of the stuck media

[motosapiens]

On 5/1/2024 at 9:23 AM, CocoBolo said:

 While you might perfer the feel of the 8#, have you ever run 500 rounds without a single hiccup?  Using lighter springs tends to cause more feeding issues, have been at matches and loaned a 10# spring to another shooter that was polishing the handle on the slide racker.  IMHO just an opinion.  I normaly shoot about 172-175pf with 124gr.  I change springs every time I open a newcase of primer.  Mag springs annually unless needed sooner. 

after the first month or two of break in and learning (and culling out all non-starline brass), our brazos hasn’t had a hiccup in over 10 months. 8-10 k rounds and we had one high s&b primer that didn’t get caught during inspection and led to a light strike. no other malfunction of any kind.

 

if i was getting a hiccup every 500 rds i would throw the gun into a river.

 

fwiw, we did try a 9lb spring, but both of us found it made the dot much bouncier.

[CocoBolo]

I with you on that one.  I didn't want to set the expectations too high for the general shooting community, but 500 will get you thru even the Nationals.   If you are living in an upchuck nightmare, try a heavier spring, although the dot doesn't move when the gun don't feed. 

 

Bob builds a good gun, that isn't a fashion accessory.  

[Bravo_Victor]

On 5/2/2024 at 12:45 PM, frankge said:

Compressed air will take care of the stuck media

This. I clean all my guns with an air compressor, qtips and a rag. Blows all that crap right out. Spotless in a couple minutes 

[zzt]

On 5/1/2024 at 11:23 AM, CocoBolo said:

I have one frame on its 4th Barrel and 3rd slide, it started life as a Briley in the early 90's, 38Super converted to 9 Maj @2010 call it 400,000 rounds.  No shock buff in this girl, but having lived and learned over time I use a 9# or 10# spring.   I use IMSI springs mostly however I have run Wolf in the past.   While you might perfer the feel of the 8#, have you ever run 500 rounds without a single hiccup?  Using lighter springs tends to cause more feeding issues, have been at matches and loaned a 10# spring to another shooter that was polishing the handle on the slide racker.  IMHO just an opinion.  I normaly shoot about 172-175pf with 124gr.  I change springs every time I open a newcase of primer.  Mag springs annually unless needed sooner. 

 

^^^^.  175 PF.  9 lb. in the backup, 10 in the main.  Muzzle returns to zero, minimal dot movement.  No wiggle or bounce.

 

On 5/5/2024 at 10:52 AM, motosapiens said:

fwiw, we did try a 9lb spring, but both of us found it made the dot much bouncier

 

You've said the equivalent a couple of times.  I don't get it.  If I put an 11 lb. in my main gun, the dot doesn't get bouncier, the muzzle returns below zero.  If I use an 8 lb. the muzzle returns high.  None affect the dot, except it rises higher with the 8 lb.  BTW, these are super tight slide to frame fits.  Super smooth, but no up-down or side-to-side movement of the slide.

 

The one using the 9 lb. spring is based on a Brazos Open short block.  I did nothing to the slide and frame except polish it with some 4000 diamond grit paste mixed with oil.  It definitely made it slicker without loosening the fit.

[motosapiens]

On 5/26/2024 at 2:52 PM, zzt said:

 

^^^^.  175 PF.  9 lb. in the backup, 10 in the main.  Muzzle returns to zero, minimal dot movement.  No wiggle or bounce.

 

 

You've said the equivalent a couple of times.  I don't get it.  If I put an 11 lb. in my main gun, the dot doesn't get bouncier, the muzzle returns below zero.  If I use an 8 lb. the muzzle returns high.  None affect the dot, except it rises higher with the 8 lb. 

I am pretty good at math but I don’t feel any overwhelming need to be able to understand and explain the math and physics involved. I’m just reporting what happened when we tried it and my wife and I both came to the same conclusions independently. It seems to me that open guns have a complex interplay of variables from grip to compensator to powder to bullet weight to Springs. we can certainly adapt to some things, but it makes sense to stick with the thing that works best and most reliably with the least adaptation required.

 

Edited May 28 by motosapiens