highxj Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Picking up a Dan Wesson CCO for carry. Any reason to choose one brass over the other assuming both are available? Starting from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 For a single stack ? and for carry ? I would probably go with 38 super as you can get factory loads if you go that route.. and its possible you wont be able to go back and forth with the same extractor.. Maybe an Aftec. The advantage of Super comp was a smaller rim even with the web, that hair made a difference in higher capacity mags , usually adding up to an additional round and better reliability. In regular double stack mags, and single stacks I never had an issue getting 38 super to feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeSoprano Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 I would stick with Super, I carry a Dan Wesson Guardian in 38 Super and I can buy self defense ammo at my local gun shop (well I could) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highxj Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 I'll place an order for Super then. Shot a Colt single stack in mostly steel matches in the 80's and never had a single feed issue. Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 yeh super comp is a thing for 30 round mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Perhaps newer brass is more consistent, but in examining brass a while back to sort between Super and SuperComp cases, I found that there are 38 Super marked casers that matched SuperComp rim sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Some readers might find the article below of interest. https://www.ssusa.org/content/rimless-38-super-brass-everything-you-need-to-know/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 12 hours ago, Guy Neill said: Perhaps newer brass is more consistent, but in examining brass a while back to sort between Super and SuperComp cases, I found that there are 38 Super marked casers that matched SuperComp rim sizes. well considering super comp is rimless, or even with web like a 9mm, and super has a rim somebody isnt making Sammi brass if its marked super. Super comp should be .386 while super is .406.. Back in the 38 auto and maybe supers headspaced on the rim,, but switched to case mouth head space long ago making the rim irrelevant. Found an interesting chart,, looking like Lapua and Armscor are making 38 super ammo, but basically using 38 super comp specs.. What brand did you have ? Edited March 16 by Joe4d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 I was going through a mixed bag, using a 9mm shell holder to sort. My theory was that Super (semi-rimmed) would not enter the shell holder. As I progressed, however, I was 38 Super headstamp cases entering the shell holder. I did not note if all were from the same manufacturer, but it showed there is a wide latitude in the rims. Manufacturers do not always abide by SAAMI. SAAMI still specifies the 38 Sper headspaces on the semi-rim, and most have, to my understanding, changed to headspace on the case mouth as standard. How many ammunition boxes do you see marked "45 Long Colt" when the official SAAMI name is "45 Colt"? I believe it would, overall, be best if the 38 Super dropped the semi-rim to be a true rimless case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 1 hour ago, Guy Neill said: I was going through a mixed bag, using a 9mm shell holder to sort. My theory was that Super (semi-rimmed) would not enter the shell holder. As I progressed, however, I was 38 Super headstamp cases entering the shell holder. I did not note if all were from the same manufacturer, but it showed there is a wide latitude in the rims. Manufacturers do not always abide by SAAMI. SAAMI still specifies the 38 Sper headspaces on the semi-rim, and most have, to my understanding, changed to headspace on the case mouth as standard. How many ammunition boxes do you see marked "45 Long Colt" when the official SAAMI name is "45 Colt"? I believe it would, overall, be best if the 38 Super dropped the semi-rim to be a true rimless case. probably correct.. the only guns that need the rim probably shouldnt be shooting 38 super level loads anyways. and stick with 38 Auto... According to chart I looked at it seems Everyone but Remington has done just that and all 38 super ammo is now near rimless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Joe4d said: probably correct.. the only guns that need the rim probably shouldnt be shooting 38 super level loads anyways. and stick with 38 Auto... According to chart I looked at it seems Everyone but Remington has done just that and all 38 super ammo is now near rimless. That's not quite accurate. The only traditional semi-rimmed 38 Super case in that table is the Remington. Other brands make semi-rimmed cases, but are not listed there. All the others in the table are specifically noted as rimless super comp and clones. It's from the article I posted the link to, which describes the known rimless Super Comp and TJ cases made at the time. Other semi-rimmed brands are not in the table because the article focuses on the rimless variants. Most of those same brands also make semi-rimmed 38 cases. Right? Starline has two semi-rimmed 38 Super cases in addition to their Super Comp and TJ lines. Edited March 16 by superdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 4 hours ago, Guy Neill said: I was going through a mixed bag, using a 9mm shell holder to sort. My theory was that Super (semi-rimmed) would not enter the shell holder. As I progressed, however, I was 38 Super headstamp cases entering the shell holder. I did not note if all were from the same manufacturer, but it showed there is a wide latitude in the rims. Manufacturers do not always abide by SAAMI. SAAMI still specifies the 38 Sper headspaces on the semi-rim, and most have, to my understanding, changed to headspace on the case mouth as standard. How many ammunition boxes do you see marked "45 Long Colt" when the official SAAMI name is "45 Colt"? I believe it would, overall, be best if the 38 Super dropped the semi-rim to be a true rimless case. I would not be super-surprised to find people turning down the rims of regular .38 Supers to make them rimless. That thought crossed my mind a few times when SC and TJ were hard to get. Any evidence of trimming on yours Guy? The Lapua and Armscor rimless headstamps don't make it obvious either. IIRC Matt McLearn made the first batches of his .38 MCM brass on a lathe from regular .38 Super. It was probably the progenitor of all the rimless .38 Supers in use today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 I did not note evidence of turning the rim down - but I wasn't looking for it either. I'll look through a batch (hopefully soon) and see what presents itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 I took a sample of 160 cases (2 80 round case blocks) and tried them in a 9mm Luger shell holder. Of the 160, 57 fit the 9mm shell holder. All have a 38 Super headstamp. I suspect I had separated any SuperComp or such some time ago. I have nbot detailed headstamps, but noted Starline, R-P and Win. There were also 5 that halfway entered the shell holder. I have not yet measured the rim diameters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Measuring the rim diameters on the 57 cases that fit the 9mm Luger shell holder givers an average diameter of 0.397". The SAAMI maximum for a 9mm Luger is 0.394". Given the tolerances, the 38 Super rims are within tolerance even though they can fit the 9mm shell holder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayfk05 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 56 minutes ago, Guy Neill said: Given the tolerances, the 38 Super rims are within tolerance even though they can fit the 9mm shell holder. Does not surprise me, both Hornady and Dillon use the same shell plate for 9mm and .38 Super. (Or actually the entire conversion kit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 That's why a lot of .38 SC shooters use the .223 shellplate for 38 SC. Most rimmed 38 Supers don't fit into that one. The 'field test' for older shooters that can't read the headstamp is to try and put them base-first into a fired .40 case. SC's will slide right in, rimmed 38 S will not. I made a few defective hundo gauges into .38Superators by drilling them out so a SC case would fall through and a super not. One local shooter that still loves rimmed Super is a big fan. I thought he might be the last person ever shooting Super at matches. Is regular Super still a thing in other parts of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Seems like the only 38 super shooters I know are OGs who are already rigged up and stocked up for 38 super. That would include me. So yeah there are some holdouts. if I was starting out in open again I’d definitely go the super comp route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyScuba Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 I still come across 38 super and 9x21 contaminating my match pickup supercomps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 I've been happy to not find any 9x21 or 9x23 in with my range pickups lately.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, Bamboo said: Seems like the only 38 super shooters I know are OGs who are already rigged up and stocked up for 38 super. That would include me. So yeah there are some holdouts. if I was starting out in open again I’d definitely go the super comp route. Arent Supers changeable to Supercomps? And vversa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, MikeyScuba said: I still come across 38 super and 9x21 contaminating my match pickup supercomps I use .556 shellplates in my 550 to sort out supers from scomps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, BoyGlock said: Arent Supers changeable to Supercomps? And vversa? Yes, extractor-change if it was made on a .38 Super slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 1 hour ago, BoyGlock said: Arent Supers changeable to Supercomps? And vversa? Yep, it is usually pretty much an extractor tweak/replacement...if even that. Sometimes need to mess with the breech face depending on the slide. I have an old Caspian that will reliably run anything you can load in the mags. Likewise have an STI that has been set up for super, and super comp just doesn't eject reliably. The real issue for the 38 super holdouts isn't the mechanics of the conversion, it is that we have all the reloading/processing hardware and gauging set-ups for 38 super, and many have buckets of 38 super brass. I have enough brass to literally last the rest of my Open division shooting days, and I know others who do also. Anyway, that is my story and I'm sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 3 hours ago, shred said: Yes, extractor-change if it was made on a .38 Super slide. I thought super and supercomps have same slide breechface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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