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.38 Special First Time Load Development for Knockdown Steel - Help Requested


Haywizzle

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18 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

That's a pretty heavy crimp to me. I don't go that deep.

I'm measuring the crimp at .372". We didn't get any tumbling issues on the 42 rounds we fired during ladder testing.

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1 hour ago, ysrracer said:

That's a pretty heavy crimp to me. I don't go that deep.

concur, plus he is running them through a 9mm FCD... which is probably compressing things to .355...  But eh ? 10 sd isnt horrible, and if he can clean gun without a grinder I guess things are ok

 

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5 hours ago, Haywizzle said:

I'm measuring the crimp at .372". We didn't get any tumbling issues on the 42 rounds we fired during ladder testing.

 

I don't go by what it measures, I load a few and pull one. I go by what it looks like.

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Man, I must be a lucky sonofabitch. Other than pure hunting handgun loads, Ive never once crimped a revolver load for my competition shooting. I use a standard RCBS die set and use the taper crimp die, but do not roll crimp like I see the pulled bullets displayed here.

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2 hours ago, Vic said:

Man, I must be a lucky sonofabitch. Other than pure hunting handgun loads, Ive never once crimped a revolver load for my competition shooting. I use a standard RCBS die set and use the taper crimp die, but do not roll crimp like I see the pulled bullets displayed here.

Those are taper crimped with a 9mm die. 

Edited by Farmer
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My reading comprehension needs some fine tuning, was relying on my eye. Whew, thats some serious taper crimp to bite the bullet that deep?

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1 hour ago, Vic said:

My reading comprehension needs some fine tuning, was relying on my eye. Whew, thats some serious taper crimp to bite the bullet that deep?

Vic:

 

Doesn't take much to do that to a powder coated, lead bullet.  

 

GG

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Crimp for revolver rounds is completely different from semi-auto.  Revolver rounds, especially for magnum loads, typically use a roll crimp to prevent setback from recoil.  That's why revolver bullets often have a cannelure.  Semi-autos use a taper crimp and rely on adequate case sizing to prevent setback.  What's shown in the pictures above is perfectly fine and will make no difference in accuracy.

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3 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Crimp for revolver rounds is completely different from semi-auto.  Revolver rounds, especially for magnum loads, typically use a roll crimp to prevent setback from recoil.  That's why revolver bullets often have a cannelure.  Semi-autos use a taper crimp and rely on adequate case sizing to prevent setback.  What's shown in the pictures above is perfectly fine and will make no difference in accuracy.

revolver rounds dont set back.. they do the exact opposite,, They headspace off the rim or a moon clip. They arnt getting slammed into a ramp before firing like auto rounds.

But generally since  revolvers dont headspace on case mouth, a roll crimp into a groove does a pretty good job..
But as this is mostly talking about competition, people want smooth fast reloads.. Sooo most of us use smooth side, no groove bullets and a taper crimp to hold the bullet in place.

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3 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Revolver rounds, especially for magnum loads, typically use a roll crimp to prevent setback from recoil.

 

Bullet creep, moves forward. I've had one laying in the cylinder with the powder behind it.

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Sorry guys, major brain fart on my part.  And you're are absolutely right.  Revolver rounds get longer not shorter.  Back when I used to shoot at public ranges, one time a guy showed up in the stall next to me with a Ruger Super Redhawk in something like 454 Casull or 480.  Figured I didn't need to be around for that, so started packing up.  He fired one round and the cylinder locked up.

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6 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

Sorry guys, major brain fart on my part.  And you're are absolutely right.  Revolver rounds get longer not shorter.  Back when I used to shoot at public ranges, one time a guy showed up in the stall next to me with a Ruger Super Redhawk in something like 454 Casull or 480.  Figured I didn't need to be around for that, so started packing up.  He fired one round and the cylinder locked up.

yeh happens sometimes with the heavy stuff without a good crimp.  or 929's with factory 9mm.

 

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In slightly veering off topic a bit I had the same issue with my open 2011 for steel as I did last year..... I can't hit anything with it.  I have been shooting and dryfiring nothing but my open revo since January.  There is something to be said about the accuracy of a red-dot revo. Or I'm shooting the 2011 too fast?

 

I was shooting my 6 sided star with 4" plates, I wanted to try the 6" first but my wife said no it's the 4's lol.  Open revo was easy, the 2011 wasn't.

 

4 weeks left to practice.  There is also the Falling Steel World Series @ Rowan at the end on May, have not been there before.

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2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

yeh happens sometimes with the heavy stuff without a good crimp.  or 929's with factory 9mm.

 

 

Yep, my 929 wouldn't fire factory ammo worth a damn.

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1 minute ago, ysrracer said:

 

Yep, my 929 wouldn't fire factory ammo worth a damn.

only thing I found that worked was Remington bulk 147..  Blazer 124's, couldnt make it a cylinder . AMerican eagle, nearly came out I wouldnt trust them

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1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

only thing I found that worked was Remington bulk 147..  Blazer 124's, couldnt make it a cylinder . AMerican eagle, nearly came out I wouldnt trust them

Agreed, American Eagle was the worst.

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22 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

In slightly veering off topic a bit I had the same issue with my open 2011 for steel as I did last year..... I can't hit anything with it.  I have been shooting and dryfiring nothing but my open revo since January.  There is something to be said about the accuracy of a red-dot revo. Or I'm shooting the 2011 too fast?

 

I was shooting my 6 sided star with 4" plates, I wanted to try the 6" first but my wife said no it's the 4's lol.  Open revo was easy, the 2011 wasn't.

 

4 weeks left to practice.  There is also the Falling Steel World Series @ Rowan at the end on May, have not been there before.

And don't forget the Blue Mountain Steel match in October at Ontelaunee!  Loads of fun! These last 4 weeks will go by quickly!

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Too much traveling I'm afraid.  But we will do the Blue Ridge match followed by their IRC warmup then the IRC.

 

You PA guys have all the good matches this year!

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49 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

Too much traveling I'm afraid.  But we will do the Blue Ridge match followed by their IRC warmup then the IRC.

 

You PA guys have all the good matches this year!

 

Did you solve your loading problem?

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22 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

Did you solve your loading problem?

?  I think you have me confused with someone else.  Loading for revo is something I figured out years ago.

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1 hour ago, MikeyScuba said:

Too much traveling I'm afraid.  But we will do the Blue Ridge match followed by their IRC warmup then the IRC.

 

You PA guys have all the good matches this year!

Blue Ridge lists "ICORE Plus". What is the plus?

I read that the IRC is at Ontelaunee this October. Is that where the warmup match is also?

We do have some great matches. Most are 2 hrs. or so for me. Way worse for you!

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If you go digging back to the Icore unoffical page Dave H from Blue Ridge is running their falling steel match the weekend before the IRC, then Monday setting up a falling steel irc practice running Tuesday/Wednesday.

 

The practice match and the big knockdown steel match aren't listed yet. 

 

It's an 8hr run one way.  But with that much shooting, hell yes we will be there.

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