Servicios Aventuras primers

[goodair]

I bought 5000 of these Servicios Aventuras small pistol primers for 250$.  Cheapest primers I have found in a long while.  I had run a few hundred previously without problems so I dove in.  Here is an interesting find this week with these primers:

 

What I am seeing is cratering without any other signs of pressure.  These are mixed used brass, some with quite a few loads out of them.  124gr coated rn acme,  4.0 grains of clean shot and 1.140 getting about 1050 fps average.  I have not seen anything like this with other primers in the past. I am today loading the same load with some Winchester SP and will compare.  Just wondering if anyone has run into this.  The cases in the pictures are placed in a case gauge and some dropped right in some slightly raised as the picture but none seemed bulged, no obvious case bulges, no extractor marks that I can see, primers do not seem to be flattened.  Just the craters. ?   OH, shooting through an officers STI 1911 (escort) and another double stack STI VIP and a new to me Alpha Foxtrot double stack.  All shot well with about 200 rounds down range and no issues either shooting or loading.

 

Just writing this to get some input. Been loading for a few years now in my little SDB but have not seen this. Don't really think this load should be high pressure at all. I have thousands of rounds through the STI guns without any of this, that is I don't think the firing pin hole is loose around the pin as you would think I would have seen this before. I think its the primers. I also loaded some in my 10mm and see exactly the same thing. On the 10mm, my first loads were with the Winchester SPP (yes small, I know but I only use SPP).  I did not see the cratering with the W brand, just the Argentinian primers.  Again, gona load up the same load with other brands to compare. 

 

Thanks in advance for ANY input.

 

 

[goodair]

Sorry, realized my pictures are bad and two look the same.  Here is a dozen out of this group for comparison.

 

[Sarge]

Maybe they are just soft primers

[Guy Neill]

You might check the respective diameters of the firing pin and the firing pin tunnel it fits through. Since the primer is extruding into the tunnel, it may indicate the firing pin diameter is smaller than it should be. You may also try using a new HD firing pin spring.

 

 

[BritinUSA]

48 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Maybe they are just soft primers

This. If your chrono data is accurate then there is no excessive pressure from your loads. Its just very thin metal on the primer cup.

[bowenbuilt]

Since the edges of the primers are still nice and round that is not a high pressure sign. Flattened and cratered primers would be a different story. As others have said, it's the hole in the breach face causing this. Just shoot um. 

[goodair]

Thank you all!   I was suspecting that the cups are just soft.  That combined with possibly a little extra room around the firing pin just squeezes the crater into the cup.  
 

Gona shoot a few with Winchester spp just to double check, then Gona ignore it.  
 

Thanks again for the responses

 

Neal

[Farmer]

Just for the heck of it, load a couple up a little hotter to see what happens. I notice that the ones in the CBC brass (thicker) look more normal. It’s more like the primer is flowing around the pin while it’s out than flowing past the pin into the hole. I’ll have to check mine again because I just got some a month ago. 
 

Edited January 7 by Farmer
Added

[dmshozer1]

I have shot thousands out of a PCC rifle,

 No problems. I wondered about it myself but not anymore.

[HesedTech]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:27 AM, goodair said:

What I am seeing is cratering without any other signs of pressure. 

If they shoot okay with the load you posted. it looks like you're good to go.

[goodair]

Just tried a few with the same load and Winchester spp. They look normal- no craters.  These are just soft.  Good to go!  If it makes anyone feel better, I shot a few out of my 10mm. 180grain not anywhere near max and they look just like the 9mm brass did.  So, for 250$ per 5000 I’m Gona shoot ‘em. 

[DeepFried]

Any troubles loading them? Tough to seat like Ginex? Or issues in the press?

[goodair]

No, actually these loaded really easy.  I just have a Dillon Square deal and use it for 9, 45 and 10.  Did not have any trouble at all with the loading, they flip fine on the tray and seem very uniform.   If I wasn't switching powders as I ran out of 231, I would not have noticed anything. I am new to clean shot and was working up a simple plinking load for 9 and noticed the craters.  I am convinced that these are just soft.  I do wonder than if they are used for anything up at max, say 10mm at max, would they have problems?  Doubt it, but I would tread softly or save these for the lighter stuff.  For plinken they seem OK.

[dannyd]

The SA's have worked well for me. Loaded 9,200 so far.

 

 

 

[Farmer]

I just wish I would have bought more when I did. For vanilla loads they work just fine. I just loaded some in my 327 FM so we’ll see how that goes. 

[frankge]

you may get that if the primer is not sat all the way to the bottom of the pocket. 

[Dr Mitch]

I’ve run through 1000 of these in the last month.  They are fine.

[JoeMKY]

I used those in my 1911 40s&w last year for handgun nationals, they all fired just fine.

[392heminut]

3 hours ago, Dr Mitch said:

I’ve run through 1000 of these in the last month.  They are fine.

Good to know! I bought 5K of them a while back and I'm just now getting around to loading 9mm with them.

[PhotoRecon]

My 9mm loads do this same primer flow with Ginex in my P365X Macro but not when used for 9mm Major in my Czechmate.

[frankge]

For 50 bucks a K, just bought another 10k. Best price for primers you can find right now.

[fbzero]

I grabbed some and would do it again based on my first trip with them.  Only loaded up a small batch to start with to check things on the chrono with my current load and make sure they go bang, etc.  Initial thoughts are below.

-They seat easy enough, not super tight like the Ginex I used during the Obama shortages.

 

-Some people have reported that they are "hard", but my S2 with an 11.5lb mainspring/extended CGW firing pin set them off without issues.  May or may not be harder than some others, but that's a pretty light mainspring, so I'm thinking people must be taking things to extremes with their trigger work or weren't getting them fully seated.

 

-Compared to the Fiocchi's I have been using, the ES and SD were a bit higher, but still pretty good.  If you're one of those people loading to 127PF, throw 10-20 rounds over the chrono and make sure you aren't going to get bit.  If I throw out the one round that was the biggest outlier, the ES/SD are almost identical, so maybe just something related to the mixed range brass I use or a light powder drop, etc.

Edited February 23 by fbzero

[DeepFried]

1 hour ago, fbzero said:

 

-Compared to the Fiocchi's I have been using, the ES and SD were a bit higher, but still pretty good.  If you're one of those people loading to 127PF, throw 10-20 rounds over the chrono and make sure you aren't going to get bit.  If I throw out the one round that was the biggest outlier, the ES/SD are almost identical, so maybe just something related to the mixed range brass I use or a light powder drop, etc.

what sort of ES are you seeing? Current production Fiocchi gives me larger spread than anything else. Often 60-80fps range. 

[VeilAndrew]

1 hour ago, fbzero said:

-They seat easy enough, not super tight like the Ginex I used during the Obama shortages.

What was your experience like with Ginex, though? I have heard that they are difficult to seat, but my 9mm brass gets swaged.

 

Currently, I'm trying to choose between Ginex/Servicios/Fiocchi for mostly practice ammo. They're all fairly similar in terms of price.

[fbzero]

59 minutes ago, Seoderus said:

what sort of ES are you seeing? Current production Fiocchi gives me larger spread than anything else. Often 60-80fps range. 

With the Fiocchi's, ES was 23.7 and SD was 8.2 on my last 10 rounds over the chrono.  Having problems finding the data on the previous 10 rounds I did in a different range session, but the data was almost the same.  With the SA primers, ES was 42.2 and SD was 11.6(ES 31.3, SD 8.9 with the one outlier removed).

 

In my pistol reloading experience, primers don't usually make much of a difference for ES and SD.  I verify over the chrono to be safe, but the reality is that between Winchesters, Remingtons, S&B's, Ginex, Fiocchi's, and now these SA's, I've just never seen enough of a difference to matter for pistol applications.  With rifle loads it can be another story.  To me, it seems like the best way to improve ES/SD with pistol is to load on the higher end of the load data for your powder and(if possible) make your OAL to where the projectile is very close to the powder fill line or even slightly compressed.  Just keep in mind that the main function of OAL is to feed reliably, so you might not have much choice there.  Other than reduced perceived recoil of a faster powder, that is the other advantage of powders like N320, Sport Pistol, etc.  The higher end of the load data for those is basically minor PF + a cushion so you aren't riding the line.

 

42 minutes ago, VeilAndrew said:

What was your experience like with Ginex, though? I have heard that they are difficult to seat, but my 9mm brass gets swaged.

 

Currently, I'm trying to choose between Ginex/Servicios/Fiocchi for mostly practice ammo. They're all fairly similar in terms of price.

 

When I first got the Ginex, I had a 650, so my 9mm brass was not getting swaged.  They were difficult to seat, and I'd get bit by the occasional high primer at a match if I didn't case gauge to weed them out.  Before I ran out of them, I picked up a 1050 from a guy that was getting out of pistol reloading and never had another problem once my brass was getting swaged during the loading process.

 

If your brass is being swaged, the choice between those probably doesn't matter.  I believe the Ginex's are heavy metal free though, so if that is worth ~25% extra cost to you in the current market, they may be worth it.  Got the SA's for 5.2c/primer delivered, while ordering Ginex would be closer to 6.5c/primer right now.

Edited February 23 by fbzero