New IDPA rulebook (2024)

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, RePete said:

 

They still couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery.  They need to pay a professional writer for the rulebook.

 

That, and fully recognize that it is just a game and not a self defense training program. Some of the silliest rules (reloads, can't have Texas stars, fishing vests required, etc) seem to be hanging on forever just because of a bull headed stubborn pretense that IDPA ever was about real tactical training. 

[Joe4d]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:10 PM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I wish they would stop being stubborn. 

First - you can't dump rounds (legally) because dumping rounds would get you killed in a real gun fight.

Now - you must dump rounds to get your best score because not dumping rounds will get you killed in a real gun fight. 

 

They control how many rounds you start out with, that should be enough to make the conservation of ammo crowd happy. The 'can't reload when you want to' rules just makes the game a little bit less fun and creates another duty/distraction for the safety officers and wastes valuable ammo. 

 

Gripe done. 

anyone else get the hypocracy with the whole real world thing ?
Randomly spraying live rounds throught the crowd ? A-OK... dropping a mag on the ground with an unfired ground.... OMG OMG much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth...  LOL
Really id just like to find a match that I can shoot in half a day.. 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, Joe4d said:

Randomly spraying live rounds throught the crowd ? A-OK... dropping a mag on the ground with an unfired ground.... OMG OMG much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth... 

 

[Racinready300ex]

I shot a stage last year that ended up being the dumbest thing I've ever done in a shooting sport. Imagine two positions, you have the option to go to either to engage the same 4 targets. One is prone, one is a farther run but standing and leaning. From both positions the shooting was vary hard with NS partials obscuring all of them. You were going to shoot slow, and likely drop points and if you happen to end up not getting a Mike or NS you might win the stage. 

 

Ooor what we did. You run dry in the open before this position, so pop a reload round the corner to go to the sanding position and dump the whole mag as fast as you can over the targets while running down the short hall to the position. Once 8 rounds where fired the targets were "engaged" and make up shots could be made from anywhere. So you ran dry, and popped a reload and never stopped running until you were standing next to the target and just blasting them. 

 

I felt like such a operator. But, you really had no choice. Do it the way it was intended you're not winning the match because others had already done it. 

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

anyone else get the hypocracy with the whole real world thing ?
Randomly spraying live rounds throught the crowd ? A-OK... dropping a mag on the ground with an unfired ground.... OMG OMG much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth...  LOL
Really id just like to find a match that I can shoot in half a day.. 

 

[Joe4d]

LOL,, u dadblamed gamers... !!!! get off my lawn !

 

[Racinready300ex]

10 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

LOL,, u dadblamed gamers... !!!! get off my lawn !

 

 

One of my buddies on the squad jokingly asked if we could do that expecting a no. The CRO said yes, that the AC had overruled them and said they had to allow it if people wanted too. 

 

The fix probably would of been to put some steel down there so running up would of been unsafe. Or built some kind of physical barrier maybe. That or not make the shooting so hard that doing dumb stuff is faster. 

 

It felt dirty but it had to be done. 

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

One of my buddies on the squad jokingly asked if we could do that expecting a no. The CRO said yes, that the AC had overruled them and said they had to allow it if people wanted too. 

 

The fix probably would of been to put some steel down there so running up would of been unsafe. Or built some kind of physical barrier maybe. That or not make the shooting so hard that doing dumb stuff is faster. 

 

It felt dirty but it had to be done. 

 

A literal stick designated as a "forward fault line" would have solved it.

 

You took advantage of a poorly designed stage. Don't be ashamed - stand proud.

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, matteekay said:

 

A literal stick designated as a "forward fault line" would have solved it.

 

You took advantage of a poorly designed stage. Don't be ashamed - stand proud.

 

I got the impression from staff that the AC was there when they set it up and told them they'd have to physically stop people from going down there via barrels or something. Our AC doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to making good calls. 

[JRM83]

9 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

That, and fully recognize that it is just a game and not a self defense training program. Some of the silliest rules (reloads, can't have Texas stars, fishing vests required, etc) seem to be hanging on forever just because of a bull headed stubborn pretense that IDPA ever was about real tactical training. 

 IDPA has changed so much over the past 5-7 years and nearly all of it for better. Most of these changes made game closer to USPSA. In some ways (divisions and equipment) I think they actually got it right where USPSA did not. So why they continue to hang on to those last few idiotic differences is beyond me. Are they still trying to pretend it's tactical, or is it just to keep some separation between the two games? Beats me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IHAVEGAS]

18 minutes ago, JRM83 said:

 IDPA has changed so much over the past 5-7 years and nearly all of it for better. Most of these changes made game closer to USPSA. In some ways (divisions and equipment) I think they actually got it right where USPSA did not. So why they continue to hang on to those last few idiotic differences is beyond me. Are they still trying to pretend it's tactical, or is it just to keep some separation between the two games? Beats me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

Joyce Wilson wrote a few years back, I think about the time they decided to outlaw the Texas star, that she didn't want IDPA to become USPSA light. I have no idea why she feels that way but there seems to be some history or ego behind holding onto some of the differences just to be different. 

[RePete]

13 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Agreed.

Joyce Wilson wrote a few years back, I think about the time they decided to outlaw the Texas star, that she didn't want IDPA to become USPSA light. I have no idea why she feels that way but there seems to be some history or ego behind holding onto some of the differences just to be different. 

 

Just before that announcement I shot an IDPA match in PA that had a Texas Star and loved it.

 

Her not wanting USPSA Lite did happen, wooden fault lines, standing in the open behind a piece of wood and pretending that you're in cover etc.  They even change the original principles and don't adhere to them, Bill et al must be shaking their collective heads.

[Racinready300ex]

I remember when they banned texas stars, my local club had just bought one. lol. Never fails. 

[IHAVEGAS]

7 minutes ago, RePete said:

 

Just before that announcement I shot an IDPA match in PA that had a Texas Star and loved it.

 

I was grousing about the rule change at a "Backstoppers" level 2 match in Missouri not long after it went into effect (that was a great club who put on a great match, I think they have stopped though). The MD I was grousing to explained that HQ was making the changes to make the sport more self defense realistic. 

 

We were literally standing next to a stage that featured zombie cows with clay pigeon targets for brains as we discussed the loss of our ability to use expensive fun targets that many clubs had already purchased in order to enhance realism. 

[shred]

IPSC thinks Texas Stars are stilly too, btw.  

 

Still hanging on in USPSA for Level 1 only, although they used to be a thing at Nationals.

 

[MHicks]

The Texas star can be frustrating for new shooters. Just last Saturday we had one and when I shot a plate it fell and knocked another one off. Happened a couple of times. Reshoot. 

[Racinready300ex]

Yeah we can't really have things that are just fun in matches. I almost never see texas stars. 

[Joe4d]

3 hours ago, MHicks said:

The Texas star can be frustrating for new shooters. Just last Saturday we had one and when I shot a plate it fell and knocked another one off. Happened a couple of times. Reshoot. 

and thats why they dont belong at sanctioned matches.. Yep they are fun,,, but I have never seen them scored correctly every time.. and this includes at USPSA Nationasl.. Scoring them correctly would bring matches to a screaching halt. They simply arnt reliable enough

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

and thats why they dont belong at sanctioned matches.. Yep they are fun,,, but I have never seen them scored correctly every time.. and this includes at USPSA Nationasl.. Scoring them correctly would bring matches to a screaching halt. They simply arnt reliable enough

It might depend on the design. My local USPSA club purchased the magnetic retention type a few years back and I can't remember ever having more issues than you get with well designed static steel plates and with poppers. I actually can't ever remember having even one issue but it seems reasonable that if shot enough somebody is bound to get a very marginal edge hit (as happens with all plates) and a subsequent range equipment failure reshoot. 

 

If it was my match I would be more concerned about pepper poppers & plate racks & some of the movers. 

 

We also have the spring retention type stars and with those I would have to agree with you. 

 

The worst repeat problems I have seen at a major were with forward falling poppers. It was a very bad situation because they would fail & you would adjust them & a few squads later they would fail again so that screwed up the match flow, but the worst thing is you knew that some shooters got screwed because they were flaky & inconsistent. In this case it was the design, I hate shooting forward falling poppers but have seen some that seemed extremely reliable. 

[twodownzero]

I just spend a half hour re-reading some IDPA rules and I still don't know what the present holster rule is.  I gave up USPSA but I could be persuaded to pull the holster off of the IDPA-banned belt if it means I can shoot IDPA/ESP with it.

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, twodownzero said:

I just spend a half hour re-reading some IDPA rules and I still don't know what the present holster rule is.  I gave up USPSA but I could be persuaded to pull the holster off of the IDPA-banned belt if it means I can shoot IDPA/ESP with it.

 

Really? I thought the holster rules were some of the better-written ones (not that that's saying much...). It's section 8.5 in the 2024 rulebook. 

 

What's your question?

[RangerTrace]

6 hours ago, twodownzero said:

I just spend a half hour re-reading some IDPA rules and I still don't know what the present holster rule is.  I gave up USPSA but I could be persuaded to pull the holster off of the IDPA-banned belt if it means I can shoot IDPA/ESP with it.

Heal of the gun has to be above the top edge of the belt and the holster has to be no more than 3" from the shooters body.  I went back to my RHT dropped and offset.  And of course your cover garment has to cover it.

[matteekay]

And all the usual stuff - needs to be kydex/leather, enclose the gun on three sides, be suitable to be worn all day, etc. Basically a lot of words to say "no trigger guard-only style race holsters".

[IHAVEGAS]

7 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

Really? I thought the holster rules were some of the better-written ones (not that that's saying much...). It's section 8.5 in the 2024 rulebook. 

 

What's your question?

1. 8.5.1.1  Must be suitable for all day concealed carry or duty style holsters and worn on each stage regardless of the start position.

 

That one caused umbrage at a major last fall. The shooter had a holster with about a 1" spacer that placed it very nicely for the draw but it wasn't a duty style holster or in any way something you would use for concealed carry.

 

The shooter got called for it, put down his $100.00 challenge, and won. 

 

It seems like if you pretend that rule doesn't exist then you are good with the rest of the holster rules. 

[Racinready300ex]

13 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

1. 8.5.1.1  Must be suitable for all day concealed carry or duty style holsters and worn on each stage regardless of the start position.

 

That one caused umbrage at a major last fall. The shooter had a holster with about a 1" spacer that placed it very nicely for the draw but it wasn't a duty style holster or in any way something you would use for concealed carry.

 

The shooter got called for it, put down his $100.00 challenge, and won. 

 

It seems like if you pretend that rule doesn't exist then you are good with the rest of the holster rules. 

 

They've changed the rule since then too, now the outside edge of the holster can't be more than 3" from your body. So unless you're fairly round 1" spacers probably wont fly anymore. And if you're that round those spacers are just making it fair for you as tucking the gun under your gut is going to hinder your draw a touch. 

 

I run a red hill holster, on a boss hanger with no spacers and my rig is barely legal. If my belt isn't tight enough it probably isn't legal. RHT holsters stick out pretty far. 

[matteekay]

49 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

1. 8.5.1.1  Must be suitable for all day concealed carry or duty style holsters and worn on each stage regardless of the start position.

 

That one caused umbrage at a major last fall. The shooter had a holster with about a 1" spacer that placed it very nicely for the draw but it wasn't a duty style holster or in any way something you would use for concealed carry.

 

32 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

They've changed the rule since then too, now the outside edge of the holster can't be more than 3" from your body. 

 

Yeah, I feel like that was a good inclusion. I wish they had more hard and fast rules in the rest of the rulebook.