Life Expectancy - Ruger 10/22 magazines

[RickT]

This thread is a treasure.  The Mini-mags are popping up and jamming in the top of the chamber or at about 11 o'clock.  I had never seen this before and have been wondering if the bullet hasn't been nose diving into the feed ramp, slowing down the bolt and allow the round to pop up.  We may have some AR bullets around and sub-sonic CCI might be a good test although not the round I would run regularly.

[Hoops]

17 minutes ago, RickT said:

This thread is a treasure.  The Mini-mags are popping up and jamming in the top of the chamber or at about 11 o'clock.  I had never seen this before and have been wondering if the bullet hasn't been nose diving into the feed ramp, slowing down the bolt and allow the round to pop up.  We may have some AR bullets around and sub-sonic CCI might be a good test although not the round I would run regularly.

I’m not sure sub-sonic would be a good choice.  They don’t generate enough pressure to properly move the bolt.

 

Aguila HV is an excellent round for a test.  Not expensive.  Its nose is rounded similar to AR Tactical.  1255 fps so it will move the bolt.  A bit dirty but okay for testing.

 

You mentioned the Wiland barrel.  When several of us were trying this barrel (5” and sleeved) we used the Kidd minus 10 recoil spring to compensate for the lower pressure.  Not clear what you did.  In a 16” barrel, we find the standard spring is better to properly move the bolt….especially forward to strip the round off the mag and chamber it.

 

I don’t think this has been mentioned.  @Gregg K has a lot of experience with this and uses a plus add spring.

[RickT]

Didn't mean to imply that we should switch to the subs, just use their different profile to evaluate feeding even if only with a manual bolt release.  I do wonder if the bolt buffer doesn't harden a bit after time.  Don't know if that would affect bolt speed in any event.  I'm seeing others as mentioned above apply a good deal more tension to the mags than has been my practice.

[zzt]

YHou don't have to tighten the spring 2 full turns, but it has to be more than what Ruger recommends.

 

FWIW, I shot AR Tactical for years.  For some reason I have 1-2 failures to fire in every 300 rounds in all of my 22 pistols.  Fires 100% in my 10/22.  MiniMags do not have that problem in pistols.

[Hoops]

14 minutes ago, RickT said:

Didn't mean to imply that we should switch to the subs, just use their different profile to evaluate feeding even if only with a manual bolt release.  I do wonder if the bolt buffer doesn't harden a bit after time.  Don't know if that would affect bolt speed in any event.  I'm seeing others as mentioned above apply a good deal more tension to the mags than has been my practice.

Bolt Buffer:  Many of us use the Kidd buffer.    Rubber with 3/32” tungsten rod insert.  $7.00.  Dampens the bolt.  Lasts a long time.  
 

Rotor Tension:  TK initially had a video saying 1-1/2 turns.  Several of my friend had talked to TK about this not being enough.  When TK subsequently launched their green rotor, they included another video.  Snug up rotor, turn 2 full revolutions then press into the next slot.  @Gregg K shoots 1,000’s of rounds.  He is 2-1/2 turns.

[Hoops]

@RickT  do you run a standard recoil spring?  

[Gregg K]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

YHou don't have to tighten the spring 2 full turns, but it has to be more than what Ruger recommends.

I don't know what Ruger recommends and what they do in their factory mags probably changes with each batch but the last 2 value packs of 3 that I bought from Ruger were wound to 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 turns out of the box. There are so many variables involved that you probably just need to run what you find to work with your combination.

[Poozinsc]

I emailed TK the other day after posting and haven't received a reply yet.  That's a bit unusual for them.

 

I have one TK double that is all TK parts.  When I started checking their parts out I wanted to try one to use as a baseline.  It runs great.  It's usually the first one out of the box during a match.  Otherwise,  I use the Ruger guts replacing only the spring with a TK spring.  I wind my mags either 9 or 10 notches.  I've tried two full turns and that seemed a bit excessive to me.  You have to experiment and find what works for you.

[Hoops]

7 minutes ago, Poozinsc said:

I emailed TK the other day after posting and haven't received a reply yet.  That's a bit unusual for them.

 

I have one TK double that is all TK parts.  When I started checking their parts out I wanted to try one to use as a baseline.  It runs great.  It's usually the first one out of the box during a match.  Otherwise,  I use the Ruger guts replacing only the spring with a TK spring.  I wind my mags either 9 or 10 notches.  I've tried two full turns and that seemed a bit excessive to me.  You have to experiment and find what works for you.

I just spoke with TK.  The green rotor and nylon feedlips have been discontinued for individual retail sales.

 

It was not clear if they will continue to sell the fully assembled double mag once their parts are depleted.

 

Green springs, nut and screw will continue to be sold.

 

 

[Gregg K]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:54 PM, zzt said:

Glad I bought TK spares for everything.  Good thing.  I tossed all the Ruger feed lips and rotors.

You could have at least "tossed" them my way.

[Flatland Shooter]

4 hours ago, Hoops said:

I just spoke with TK.  The green rotor and nylon feedlips have been discontinued for individual retail sales.

 

It was not clear if they will continue to sell the fully assembled double mag once their parts are depleted.

 

Green springs, nut and screw will continue to be sold.

 

 

 

Not good news.   Hopefully its just a temporary issue.  I've got too many of the TK Doubles and need to keep them running.

[Hoops]

13 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

 

Not good news.   Hopefully its just a temporary issue.  I've got too many of the TK Doubles and need to keep them running.

based on what TK told me they are discontinued.  No explanation given.  The TK doubles work just fine with the factory rotor and feedlips.  The clear double mag body is still available.  

[Hoops]

@RickT  I’m curious if you’ve received a TH double mag and done any testing?

 

Hopefully you can resolve your gun issues.

[RickT]

@HoopsComing up.  Dog had some dental surgery and a 20 deg in the am cold snap has gotten in the way.  Coming up on Saturday.  Current TK double mags are still coming with the green rotors.  I also have these mags that a gun store had populated with Ruger parts for comparison.  I am near-convinced that I've been under torquing the springs to I'll bring a few single mags with 1-1/2 turns or so, less than my usual approach.

[RickT]

I've identified two unrelated issues which are readily addressed

1. The rotary magazine springs do wear out and I'm fairly certain I under-tension magazines that have seen some rounds.

 

2. I do run bore patches through our 10/22 barrels, but we just discovered that mini-mags don't seat readily when I perform the equivalent of a centerfire drop test.  I nylon brushed the chamber and the mini-mags now seat with ease (manually).  This is a bit baffling given a)I do clean the barrel, b)We haven't seen this before, and c)why just mini-mags, our go-to SC round, when CCI AR, CCI Camo, ... all drop into the chamber.

 

From now on I'll repeat this drop test as part of my cleaning routine.

[Farmer]

3 hours ago, RickT said:

I've identified two unrelated issues which are readily addressed

1. The rotary magazine springs do wear out and I'm fairly certain I under-tension magazines that have seen some rounds.

 

2. I do run bore patches through our 10/22 barrels, but we just discovered that mini-mags don't seat readily when I perform the equivalent of a centerfire drop test.  I nylon brushed the chamber and the mini-mags now seat with ease (manually).  This is a bit baffling given a)I do clean the barrel, b)We haven't seen this before, and c)why just mini-mags, our go-to SC round, when CCI AR, CCI Camo, ... all drop into the chamber.

 

From now on I'll repeat this drop test as part of my cleaning routine.

Line up all the different rounds and see where the shoulders of the bullets line up. I’ll almost bet the mini’s are a hair longer. I ran into this on a aftermarket 10/22 bbl with a short chamber. Certain rounds would chamber while others would engrave. Some also have a tapered front driving band. 

[zzt]

If you have a 22 reamer, drop it in and turn with two fingers.  It cuts the wax buildup on the chamber shoulder.

[Flatland Shooter]

8 hours ago, zzt said:

If you have a 22 reamer, drop it in and turn with two fingers.  It cuts the wax buildup on the chamber shoulder.

On a 10/22, can a 22 reamer be used without removing the barrel?  What are the dimensions?  Thanks.

[zzt]

2 hours ago, Flatland Shooter said:

On a 10/22, can a 22 reamer be used without removing the barrel?  What are the dimensions?  Thanks.

 

No.

[JasonS]

Just FYI.  I called TK about a month ago when I noticed the feed lips weren't available on the website, and needed to refurb some magazines.  They did sell me about a dozen of them, under a special request when I called them directly.

 

 

 

[jrdoran]

My review of my NEW TK doublecross ( fully assembled )

 

Quote

Product Name: Assembled DoubleKross Magazine for Ruger® 10/22®
Headline: DoubleKross - Nylon Lips

Review: I've been using the DoubleKross for more than 2 years in active steel challenge. It has worked flawless, however I just received a new set and they had the nylon feed lips. My normally reliable 10/22 had issues with no other changes. In careful looking there is a sharp angle on the nylon exit ramp. Also, I'm a bit worried about scratching them as I often clean with a stainless brush to remove carbon on the old metal lips. I might have to file / sand the angle a bit ( which is frankly not what a new product should require ). Not sure why the motivation to goto Nylon.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by jrdoran

[Farmer]

46 minutes ago, jrdoran said:

Not sure why the motivation to goto Nylon.

Because it seems that some people/companies cannot resist not f***ing with something that works!

[hornetx40]

On 10/23/2023 at 6:08 AM, Hoops said:

I’m assuming you’re referring to the black 10 rd 10/22 mags.  I’m also assuming you frequently clean the bolt.
 

Several of my friends and myself included have found the black 10 rd mag to be unreliable.  One of my friends shoots the Kidd 10/22 carbine and almost stopped before he went to our conversion noted below:

 

1.  Use Tandemkross clear double magazine.  
2. Original Ruger orange rotor. 
3. Original Ruger metal feedlips.

4. Tandemkross green rotor spring.

5.  Tandemkross tool kit for magazine assembly.  Snug rotor then 2 full revolutions and push nut into next slot.

6. Volquartsen extractor.  Yep, it’s a factor for reliability.  ALL of us have gone to VQ extractor.

We have found the clear double mag body (not the triple) to fit the receiver much better than the original black 10 round mag.  My TK double clear mags are 100% reliable (*).  We also use only HV ammo in the 10/22 for reliability.  

 

(*) all 10/22 mags require reasonable maintenance.  CCI burns cleaner than Aguila as example.  So there is no magic number of rounds that I go by.  After every practice session and match I will brush off the feedlips and blow out the mags.

 

The clear mags allow you to see the internal wax ring that WILL build up over time.  Wax will also get on the rotor grooves.  I shoot matches every week and practice once a week (when not on injured reserve list ).  I will tear down and clean all internals, including the wax buildup inside the mag body once I see the wax building up.  It’s a pain but necessary (for all mags) if you want reliability.  The Tandemkross tool kit is very useful. 

 

I would recommend buying one TK clear double body and 2 green rotor springs and try it out.  Works for us.

 

Good luck.  

I've been using this same setup since TK first came out with the DoubleKross mags. I used to wind 1.5 turns but switched to 2 turns a couple of years ago. I live where I can shoot almost every weekend of the year. some weekend 2 matches. I shoot a lot and I have TK mags that are still the original style. These mags run flawlessly in my VQ guns, and last for years. I know that some of my mags are 8+ years old.

[KelsonAK]

How long do 10/22 magazines last?  Well...  I have a set of 20 of them that have lasted 5 years - possibly longer - with a fairly heavy practice and match load.  I do clean them about every 3 months or so, and have replaced a spring or two.  I use the black 10 round magazines, as I was not happy with the reliability of the clear ones at the time.  

I tried the TK double mags when they first came out and they broke.  

Aside from the Bx25 magazines, almost all of my 10/22 failures that were repeatable, etc - were bolt related.  Some of the ruger factory bolts just seem to be lemons that wind up ejecting forward causing stove pipes regardless the magazine, though I'm sure some folks are actually wearing out magazines....

 

[WildPete]

I ordered the TK DoubleKross mags to see if this would help with my bolt being stuck back during a string.  Nice mags, but it didn't cure my issue. I tried getting good pics, poor lighting, and having only 2 having only two hands this was the best I could get. I couldn't see why the bolt was stuck back the round didn't look like it was hanging up. When I slowly pulled the charging handle back the nose of the round poked up and I sent the bolt forward.