StefVanHauwe Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 After a theoretical course, a practical course, a written and practical exam and RO'ing three Level 2-matches under the direct supervison of experienced RO's, today I finally passed and received my "RO Colours" and can officially join the league of RO's. I learned alot and know there so much more to learn in the near future. I'd like to thank the RO instructors of the BPSA, all the RO's of the different clubs that accepted and supported me RO'ing their matches, and last but not least my own clubs (SNPS & VDSZ) for their great support! See you soon at a match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Outstanding ... Welcome to the fold, brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 You have to RO three Level-2 matches before becoming an RO? So you are working those matches as a non-certified person? IPSC is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 @waktasz Not an IPSC requirement ... I suspect that's more likely something that Belgium NROI has tacked on for their people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapribek Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said: @waktasz Not an IPSC requirement ... I suspect that's more likely something that Belgium NROI has tacked on for their people. Australia does similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefVanHauwe Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 11 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said: Outstanding ... Welcome to the fold, brother! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefVanHauwe Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 10 hours ago, waktasz said: You have to RO three Level-2 matches before becoming an RO? So you are working those matches as a non-certified person? IPSC is weird. I can only speak for Belgium, not any other IPSC country. To be clear, I was never alone RO'ing, there was litterally always an accredited RO watching over me. I think it's a good system to put theory into practice under controlled conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefVanHauwe Posted October 9, 2023 Author Share Posted October 9, 2023 6 hours ago, dapribek said: Congratulations! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 4 hours ago, terrydoc said: Australia does similar Same process in Northern Ireland. Attend a classroom seminar, do a written test, three Level 2 matches as a student RO, and a practical assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Sometimes I think our RO’s here in the states need more initial training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, Sarge said: Sometimes I think our RO’s here in the states need more initial training. Yes. The balance point is how much can you pile on a person who is volunteering their time and energy before everyone says no thanks. ROs get no perks except hoarding all the price table stuff at majors if they choose to RO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, terrydoc said: Australia does similar Again ... As an IROA RM, I am not aware of any IPSC requirement for this. Various NROIs may do it, but it is not an IPSC requirement. BTW, I think it's probably a good idea. Edited October 9, 2023 by Schutzenmeister Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 32 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: Again ... As an IDOA RM, I am not aware of any IPSC requirement for this. Various NROIs may do it, but it is not an IPSC requirement. BTW, I think it's probably a good idea. I would share this IROA manual that also seems to deal with NROI certification: https://nroi-ont.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/IROA-RO-Manual-2015.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Blackstone45 said: I would share this IROA manual that also seems to deal with NROI certification: https://nroi-ont.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/IROA-RO-Manual-2015.pdf I must confess, I've never seen this document. I shall review it more carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: I must confess, I've never seen this document. I shall review it more carefully. In fairness, I can't seem to find it on the IPSC website itself. But I do know our NROI instructors worked to that manual, or some version of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Sarge said: Sometimes I think our RO’s here in the states need more initial training. More of better? Does training still consist of story time for several hours with no videos or other 20th century training aids followed by a quick trip to see if people can remember the range commands? When I went I thought it was a bit cave man and inefficient. That is not a shot at any trainer, I just think there is madness in the method, assuming it hasn't been modernized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 The current RO program in the US is a joke. Open book test with little real world video during the class itself. The live fire portion consists of saying proper commands once and running a single shooter thru a COF. That is it. My initial class had roughly 40-50 people in it. Day 1 was fully in the classroom. Day 2 was going over the take home test and then the live fire potion. Once you completed the live fire portion you could leave. This meant some people left around noon and others left around 4 PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 Definitely much different from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, waktasz said: Definitely much different from my experience. For the record, and comparison purposes: What was your experience (Level 1 RO) and about when was it? (My L1 course was in the late '90s ... Things have changed some since then!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 The question isn't which program has stricter requirements or is harder/easier to pass, the question is whether the outcome has measurable differences. In this case, the question is whether the ROs from different systems perform differently. Take the L2 requirement. It's a sanctioned match under the same rules as L1 (the exceptions for course construction are relevant for the CRO, not RO). At L2 the RO is likely assigned to a single stage, so not much variability compared to a typical L1. Is the RO going to have measurably better performance than the USPSA one after just completing the training? I would say that the experience is extremely important but experience always comes outside the training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 13 hours ago, IVC said: ... I would say that the experience is extremely important but experience always comes outside the training. Quite true. A training course cannot put you in all the different situations that you come across competing and ROing. The Finnish NROI put us through a weekend (two days) with lectures, discussion and a written test. Then we did a couple of L2 Matches as Provisional RO, supervised and coached by experienced ROs. The MDs would sign that we had coped without major issues. My first RO stage was a short one. Competitors had to start at the front and retreat to see targets through a second window. So I learned to start moving back right after the Beep. And I learned to keep the timer pretty near a PCC for the last shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefVanHauwe Posted October 10, 2023 Author Share Posted October 10, 2023 After going through the RO program in Belgium, I really like the format, since it provides an efficient mix of theory, practice and the start to grow your experience under controlled circumstances. What I also appreciate is that we can always contact our RO instructors for any questions or issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 11 hours ago, perttime said: My first RO stage was a short one. Competitors had to start at the front and retreat to see targets through a second window. So I learned to start moving back right after the Beep. And I learned to keep the timer pretty near a PCC for the last shot. 10 hours ago, StefVanHauwe said: After going through the RO program in Belgium, I really like the format, since it provides an efficient mix of theory, practice and the start to grow your experience under controlled circumstances. Since you're both European (and I grew up in Europe too, but have moved to the USA long time ago), I have a question about the local matches. Do you have a lot of L1 local matches that happen regularly (e.g., every weekend or every other weekend) and with large attendance? The reason I'm asking is that in my area, Southern CA, we have a lot of matches and a lot of people shooting so our L1 matches provide a lot of training and a lot of variety of stages for getting experience. We even used to have a structure until a few years back too, with shooting through the windows and going through the doors. All of our local ROs have done hundreds and hundreds of shooters way before getting into the class. And all of us have seen many awkward retreating stages, multiple shooting plans where the RO has to move quickly, tight spaces around the walls and barrels, quiet PCCs and all the other tricky setups. Is it similar over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 IVC, Yes here in Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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