SCSA - Limited Optics

[zzt]

Agree.  The top Open shooter, an M, placed 46th in the match I mentioned.  Not having to draw for rimfire and PCC is a huge advantage, timewise.

[Matt1911]

I used to only occasionally shoot rimfire in steel challenge, but since the primers and ammo prices went bananas, I switched to only shooting rimfire in SC and saving my centerfire ammo for USPSA. 

[guns_and_labs]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:01 PM, Joe4d said:

same could be said about CO,, yet here we are.

I agree. No reason for CO, either, in SCSA

[bigtimelarry]

On 9/9/2023 at 5:30 PM, guns_and_labs said:

I agree. No reason for CO, either, in SCSA

 

Why do you think there shouldn't be a  CO should be in SCSA ?   That's the most popular centerfire class. 

[Hoops]

Since I own an expensive 2011 Open gun I would not shoot LO.  But many already people own a 1911 and or 2011 iron sight Single stack or Limited gun that has been relegated to the safe.  LO for them would be a quick conversion and a way to use those guns again.  I say include LO in SCSA just for that reason alone….IMO.  

 

CO belongs in SCSA.  Striker fired guns with a good trigger are far less complicated than 1911/2011 guns and way more fun than Production.

 

USPSA needs more people shooting.  They need the cash.  Guns evolve and people age……why would it not be better to be inclusive rather than exclusive?  

[Racinready300ex]

14 hours ago, bigtimelarry said:

 

Why do you think there shouldn't be a  CO should be in SCSA ?   That's the most popular centerfire class. 

 

I imagine because if you look back at the WSSC CO and Open were separated by .01. That's not enough separation to justify two different divisions IMO. This thread we're talking about adding a 3rd division that's somewhere in between those two. 

 

It would seem the only reason to keep adding divisions that are functionally the same would be to increase the number of winners and champions. 

[guns_and_labs]

17 hours ago, bigtimelarry said:

 

Why do you think there shouldn't be a  CO should be in SCSA ?   That's the most popular centerfire class. 

Given that there is no power factor in SCSA, and there is no need for a magwell, CO and LO are basically on the same ballistic footing as Open. That shows up in the results, too. But, hey, it allows for more awards, patches and plaques.

[Hoops]

20 minutes ago, guns_and_labs said:

Given that there is no power factor in SCSA, and there is no need for a magwell, CO and LO are basically on the same ballistic footing as Open. That shows up in the results, too. But, hey, it allows for more awards, patches and plaques.

I would disagree with your assessment regarding a magwell.  It helps the draw and securing the grip.  When going for 2 second strings it is a factor….otherwise it would not be prohibited from other divisions.  

[Matt1911]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

I would disagree with your assessment regarding a magwell.  It helps the draw and securing the grip.  When going for 2 second strings it is a factor….otherwise it would not be prohibited from other divisions.  

It’s prohibited from other divisions because of the faster reloading process. 
You don’t need to do fast reloads in steel challenge, so if you need an enlarged mag well to get a proper grip, then you need to practice more on getting a proper grip from the holster. 
Slam the web of your hand into the beaver tail and strip that bitch. 

[Hoops]

37 minutes ago, Matt1911 said:

It’s prohibited from other divisions because of the faster reloading process. 
You don’t need to do fast reloads in steel challenge, so if you need an enlarged mag well to get a proper grip, then you need to practice more on getting a proper grip from the holster. 
Slam the web of your hand into the beaver tail and strip that bitch. 

Thanks for the lesson.

 

Faster reloading?  I thought this was a SCSA discussion regarding pros and cons of adding LO to SCSA. 
 

 

[Hoops]

BTW……if the magwell only aids reloading then why prohibit them on any gun in SCSA?

[Matt1911]

3 minutes ago, Hoops said:

BTW……if the magwell only aids reloading then why prohibit them on any gun in SCSA?

The division rules are derived from USPSA. 
if you need a mag well for steel challenge, have at it. 

[Matt1911]

13 minutes ago, Hoops said:

Thanks for the lesson.

 

Faster reloading?  I thought this was a SCSA discussion regarding pros and cons of adding LO to SCSA. 
 

 

You’re welcome.
 

It doesn’t make any difference on adding another division other than being able to say you have another classification in another division. 
 

Again. If you need a mag well to get a proper grip, then you need to work more on getting a proper grip. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Matt1911

[Joe4d]

4 hours ago, Matt1911 said:

You’re welcome.
 

It doesn’t make any difference on adding another division other than being able to say you have another classification in another division. 
 

Again. If you need a mag well to get a proper grip, then you need to work more on getting a proper grip. 

if you need sights to hit a SC target, you need to work on a proper index. Come on guy get a grip,, HA pun intended...
My revolver holds 7 rounds, guess what ? I load all 7 not 5.  Should I go on ?
Funnel can help getting a proper grip,, just like they help reloads.
99% of the time if you hit things perfect a funnel does nothing, its for the hand ful of times you are a hair off, and a funnel can make things a bit off, vs a total blown string

[Hoops]

I do not shoot USPSA anymore.

 

where does 1911 with optic fall?  Limited Optic or Open?

 

same question for 2011.

[VeilAndrew]

Single action only with a slide ride optic will put you in Limited optics for USPSA and Open for SCSA

 

Single action only with a frame mounted optic will put you in Open for both.

[Hoops]

2 minutes ago, VeilAndrew said:

Single action only with a slide ride optic will put you in Limited optics for USPSA and Open for SCSA

 

Single action only with a frame mounted optic will put you in Open for both.

Thank you

[Runswithwood1]

If slide mounted dot, your 1911/2011 would fall into the limited optic category. Seems like limited ops is here to stay, good thing I finally started shooting a dot like last week! 

[Squirrel45]

I'm not sure LO would make it into SC. Last year we had a number of us patition for rimfire revolvers and that got shot down. I'm not sure how open the powers to be are up for additional divisions. 

[Hoops]

46 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said:

I'm not sure LO would make it into SC. Last year we had a number of us patition for rimfire revolvers and that got shot down. I'm not sure how open the powers to be are up for additional divisions. 

Change is not always universally accepted, but in this case with USPSA matches leading the way with a cross-over division I suspect LO will be be approved for SCSA.

[GKB]

The real question is should SCSA just be a mirror of USPSA, even when it doesn't make sense?

 

So far, that answer is "Yes".  If so, then if it's a USPSA division it needs to be a SCSA division.

 

If "No", then the SCSA rules on divisions needs to be cleaned up to what makes sense for SCSA. 

 

Consolidate LIMITED and PRODUCTION.  The only difference is a mag capacity, gun/mag size restriction, and the "On the Approved Production LIst".  None of which gives an advantage in SCSA.  Throw away the restriction on magwells.  CARRY OPTICS would just be the revised PRODUCTION division with an optic.

[shred]

Except for that whole "DA first shot" thing, anyway...

 

I know some striker guns are very close and DA/SAs can have awesome SA pulls, but the first shot is kind of important in SCSA.

 

[Darqusoull13]

2 hours ago, GKB said:

The real question is should SCSA just be a mirror of USPSA, even when it doesn't make sense?

 

So far, that answer is "Yes".  If so, then if it's a USPSA division it needs to be a SCSA division.

 

If "No", then the SCSA rules on divisions needs to be cleaned up to what makes sense for SCSA. 

 

Consolidate LIMITED and PRODUCTION.  The only difference is a mag capacity, gun/mag size restriction, and the "On the Approved Production LIst".  None of which gives an advantage in SCSA.  Throw away the restriction on magwells.  CARRY OPTICS would just be the revised PRODUCTION division with an optic.

There's no point to adding LO to SCSA. There's already CO and Open. With all the other things that could be done to grow the sport, this might rival adding flashlights to RFPO rules. 

SCSA doesn't have to make sense either. Limited times are wildly faster than SS times. 

[Hoops]

5 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

There's no point to adding LO to SCSA. There's already CO and Open. With all the other things that could be done to grow the sport, this might rival adding flashlights to RFPO rules. 

SCSA doesn't have to make sense either. Limited times are wildly faster than SS times. 

I’m curious, what would be your top 3 things for SCSA growth.  The sport needs growth.  

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, Hoops said:

I’m curious, what would be your top 3 things for SCSA growth.  The sport needs growth.  

1. Spin it off from USPSA so that dysfunctional org has nothing to do with it.
2. an RO program.
3. different stages, (without movement) for majors.