Sig going off in a holster video

[Zachjet]

From what I’ve seen. It’s the 320’s 

[RJH]

57 minutes ago, Cuz said:

Any reports of similar issues with the P365?  Or is this issue pretty much confined to the 320?

 

There are quite a few in use, so this is still a very small percentage, which could explain some people’s skepticism. 
 

Up until the last couple of instances I was also skeptical and just figured folks were screwing around with the gun when it went off. Now I’m starting to think there is more to it. I don’t own a 320, and never planned to buy one because I’m a Glock shooter. But I do carry a 365, so I am just a bit concerned if the problem is solely with the 320…

 

There is an interesting video of a 365 that will go off with a shake awake feature though....

 

https://youtu.be/ljx9DpEMego

[cheby]

SIG SAUER statement:

 

https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/sig-sauer-statement-on-montville-ct-police-department-incident

[Cuz]

18 minutes ago, cheby said:

SIG SAUER statement:

 

https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/sig-sauer-statement-on-montville-ct-police-department-incident

hmmm, did he draw his pistol during this incident and then re-holstered it carelessly?

 

or did he just put it in wrong when he suited up for duty???

 

[RangerTrace]

Those pictures are horrible and don't tell me anything.  Lots and lots of officers leave the hood open.  It really just helps keep rain or debris off of the optic.  I could not see in the pic if the pistol was fully seated or not.

[Nolan]

On 7/31/2023 at 3:09 PM, Cuz said:

hmmm, did he draw his pistol during this incident and then re-holstered it carelessly?

 

or did he just put it in wrong when he suited up for duty???

 

 

or was it in a holster designed for a different gun?  Larger, smaller, interior feature near the trigger?  It fired after he bent down to pick up the prisoners feet, may the prisoner had the StinkFoot as Zappa would say, that was so strong the pistol gagged and went bang?  Who knows.

 

Nolan

[stick]

I'm curious to see what the outcome of the situation is after the gun is inspected.  I'm curious to see if any modifications were made to the gun by the department or officer.

[Cuz]

5 hours ago, stick said:

I'm curious to see what the outcome of the situation is after the gun is inspected.  I'm curious to see if any modifications were made to the gun by the department or officer.

Do you think we’ll ever get that info?

[mrvip27]

well the department doesn't want it inspected...even though sig offered...soo...

 

I am sure cause its a legal thing

[Boomstick303]

On 7/28/2023 at 8:41 PM, mrvip27 said:

I wonder how many department armorers ever sent the sigs in for the initial drop/safety recall? Makes ya wonder.

 

I know one of the Range Masters for a Major PD in our Metro area, and it is one of his responsibilities to approve any weapon approved for their department.  He has tested the P320 and was not able to get to fire via extensive drop testing.  They do not approve any guns that does not pass this testing.  Obviously I cannot say for sure, but one would think that most departments have some sort of vetting process for firearms for liability reasons.  

 

The interesting part of this video is why does the "gun" wait to fire until the office bends over?  To me, this tells me that there is something in the holster and bending over put tension on that item which actuates the trigger on the gun.  

 

The same officer mentioned above that he has done an extensive review of holster his department has approved to use and found many did not pass due to the trigger being too exposed allowing access to that trigger.  

 

I am not going to wax on about how P320 pistols cannot go off on their own, but this video leaves me with questions to what exactly what was going for the gun to go off.  If he was just standing there and the gun goes off that would lead to me to believe that gun went off by itself.  The fact that he bends over then the gun goes off leads be to believe the trigger was manipulated by an external item, i.e. keys, clothing, something else.  While the video is not a good look for Sig or P320s in general, unless we know all of the details, none of us can really draw any solid conclusions.  Like many of these incidents where these guns "ADing on their own".

 

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I know one of the Range Masters for a Major PD in our Metro area, and it is one of his responsibilities to approve any weapon approved for their department.  He has tested the P320 and was not able to get to fire via extensive drop testing.  They do not approve any guns that does not pass this testing.  Obviously I cannot say for sure, but one would think that most departments have some sort of vetting process for firearms for liability reasons.  

 

The interesting part of this video is why does the "gun" wait to fire until the office bends over?  To me, this tells me that there is something in the holster and bending over put tension on that item which actuates the trigger on the gun.  

 

The same officer mentioned above that he has done an extensive review of holster his department has approved to use and found many did not pass due to the trigger being too exposed allowing access to that trigger.  

 

I am not going to wax on about how P320 pistols cannot go off on their own, but this video leaves me with questions to what exactly what was going for the gun to go off.  If he was just standing there and the gun goes off that would lead to me to believe that gun went off by itself.  The fact that he bends over then the gun goes off leads be to believe the trigger was manipulated by an external item, i.e. keys, clothing, something else.  While the video is not a good look for Sig or P320s in general, unless we know all of the details, none of us can really draw any solid conclusions.  Like many of these incidents where these guns "ADing on their own".

 

 

 

I don't think any gun is going to go off on its own, like sitting on a shelf or something.

 

But, to have a duty gun in a duty holster going off while on duty with nobody touching the gun IE manipulating the trigger is an issue.

 

I've seen other videos where they explain how through dirt etc the trigger can be partially pulled enough to allow the safeties to go be cleared, and then jostling could cause the gun to fire. Did that happen here I don't know, can that actually happen, seems plausible. In the same way that when people put aftermarket triggers in Glocks and adjust all the pre-travel out they end up bypassing the striker safety.

 

 

There's another video of a female officer carrying a bunch of crap in both hands which I'm sure was banging into the gun and it goes off. She clearly did not have a hold of the gun, and maybe you could say that the stuff banging into the gun caused it to go off because of etc, etc, but that then really begins to make the question of is it something people should be carrying come to the forefront.

 

You see and hear of this with sig 320s, but no other gun. There was a little bit of this with Glocks way back, but that seems to have gone away. In other words, if all the other guns are not causing the issue maybe there's an issue with the 320 in general. Even if it works 100% as it's supposed to, maybe it's design, with a light short trigger, no manual safety, not even a trigger dingus is not really the best thing for duty. I felt factory sig 320 triggers that were no heavier than a 1911 trigger. I don't think anybody would say carrying a 1911 with a pinned  grip safety, cocked and unlocked would be a good idea, even a series 80 with a firing pin block. But for some reason people think carrying the 320 is a great idea, even though it has an enlarged trigger guard and more of a hook of a trigger than a 1911.

 

 

And I'm not a sig hater, I actually used to want a 320. But before any of the stuff came out about them going off when dropped, or going off in the holster, I saw way too many fail and matches for me to even begin to consider one. Some that were even bone stock with factory ammo

 

 

[Stuey]

6 hours ago, stick said:

I'm curious to see what the outcome of the situation is after the gun is inspected.  I'm curious to see if any modifications were made to the gun by the department or officer.

My question is are officers allowed to make internal modifications to their service weapons?  

[Boomstick303]

2 minutes ago, RJH said:

You see and hear of this with sig 320s, but no other gun.

 

The same officer that I mentioned above indicates otherwise. He is plugged in as he discuses all of these issues with various departments across the county.  I have no reason to not believe him.  

 

While I get a lot of what you are saying, I do not agree with all of it.

 

4 minutes ago, RJH said:

And I'm not a sig hater, I actually used to want a 320. But before any of the stuff came out about them going off when dropped, or going off in the holster, I saw way too many fail and matches for me to even begin to consider one. Some that were even bone stock with factory ammo

 

I understand that all of us have opinions and they are shaped by real world experiences.  I respect your opinions just as I do anyone else, but I too have real world experiences that shape my opinions as well.  I have yet to see the P320 actually fail in a match, that was not ammo related.  I agree there is an issue with the stock P320 chamber support and out of battery issues.  This I have seen first hand which has been three times over 6 years.  For me that is not enough to turn me off of the platform.  I have used Sig P320s for six years with zero issues.  For that reason I cannot find reason in dumping it due to the discussed issues.  That is not to say I have not done things to the platform to make it more reliable, as I do agree safety is paramount.  I have installed aftermarket barrels in most of P320s, and intend to get the SA's disco upgrade installed in all of me P320s at some time and point. I will be interesting if Sig makes a running change to the barrel and/or the Disco in that they have made running changes to that platform since its inception.  

 

Opinions can always change.  I am open to changing mine about the P320, if enough evidence comes to light for me to do so.  The same offices mentioned above has told me numerous horror stories of LE handling guns, being clueless about guns for me to not consider that when it comes to all of these LE issue with Sig P320 ADs.  Remember he works at a Police Department range for 20 plus years and has seen it all.  I will use his words "I trust the gun more than I trust the Ding Dongs using them."

 

Does this apply to all of LE?  Nope, but it does to the vast majority which scares me more than the P320 "discharging by itself" does.  

  

[Joe4d]

Sounds like a bunch of fan boys making excuses for a bad design.. Oh caused by dirt,, oh caused by not in holster all the way,, oh caused by officer scratching in arse,  loddy doddy everything but what it was caused by.. An obvious poor unsafe design.
I mean get real,, we arnt having this discussion about multiple other guns subjected to the same conditions. I have come off a horse and slammed into a truck bumper, laid a bike down and skidded on the gun, partially ripping holster,,, 1911's, rugers, S&W revolvers, XDM's... never had a gun just go off,, never heard of a gun just going off other than these sigs.

[RJH]

21 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

The same officer that I mentioned above indicates otherwise. He is plugged in as he discuses all of these issues with various departments across the county.  I have no reason to not believe him.  

 

While I get a lot of what you are saying, I do not agree with all of it.

 

 

I understand that all of us have opinions and they are shaped by real world experiences.  I respect your opinions just as I do anyone else, but I too have real world experiences that shape my opinions as well.  I have yet to see the P320 actually fail in a match, that was not ammo related.  I agree there is an issue with the stock P320 chamber support and out of battery issues.  This I have seen first hand which has been three times over 6 years.  For me that is not enough to turn me off of the platform.  I have used Sig P320s for six years with zero issues.  For that reason I cannot find reason in dumping it due to the discussed issues.  That is not to say I have not done things to the platform to make it more reliable, as I do agree safety is paramount.  I have installed aftermarket barrels in most of P320s, and intend to get the SA's disco upgrade installed in all of me P320s at some time and point. I will be interesting if Sig makes a running change to the barrel and/or the Disco in that they have made running changes to that platform since its inception.  

 

Opinions can always change.  I am open to changing mine about the P320, if enough evidence comes to light for me to do so.  The same offices mentioned above has told me numerous horror stories of LE handling guns, being clueless about guns for me to not consider that when it comes to all of these LE issue with Sig P320 ADs.  Remember he works at a Police Department range for 20 plus years and has seen it all.  I will use his words "I trust the gun more than I trust the Ding Dongs using them."

 

Does this apply to all of LE?  Nope, but it does to the vast majority which scares me more than the P320 "discharging by itself" does.  

  

 

So what other guns does he say are going off in the holsters other than a sig? I mean I know people have got shirt tails and such caught in a Glock, but that was clearly not the case in this video, and how hard to tell I don't think that was the case in the video of the female officer whose gun went off. Also what other guns have gone off when dropped? Not talking about an old single action revolver, I'm talking modern polymer guns.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I am genuinely curious

[Joe4d]

3 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

So what other guns does he say are going off in the holsters other than a sig? I mean I know people have got shirt tails and such caught in a Glock, but that was clearly not the case in this video, and how hard to tell I don't think that was the case in the video of the female officer whose gun went off. Also what other guns have gone off when dropped? Not talking about an old single action revolver, I'm talking modern polymer guns.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I am genuinely curious

I think one of the early Kydex makers with  trigger guard lock, mixed with a glock was a bad combination,,  you basically had to push in with your trigger finger to unlock the gun, and at the draw, you were basically following through and squeezing the trigger.. Havent heard of it being an issue in 30 years though.

[RJH]

1 minute ago, Joe4d said:

I think one of the early Kydex makers with  trigger guard lock, mixed with a glock was a bad combination,,  you basically had to push in with your trigger finger to unlock the gun, and at the draw, you were basically following through and squeezing the trigger.. Havent heard of it being an issue in 30 years though.

 

Right. But I think that was an issue with the gun going off while being drawn, not while being jostled within the holster. And that's two completely different things

[Boomstick303]

19 minutes ago, RJH said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, I am genuinely curious

 

I hardly think this is an argument at all, and that is not my intention either.  Just having a constructive discussion.  

 

I will have the discussion with him again so I am not misrepresenting exactly what he said but I do remember Glocks were one of the guns mentioned.  I am discussing LE P320s ADs in general.   We keep hearing that P320s going off in holsters, but only have video of 2 of them.  It is of my opinion that not all of these ADs are in holsters and that many ADs happen due to monkeys monkeying around with firearms and are using this excuse since it is a plausible excuse (and what seems to be all too convenient one) to cover up an LE's AD.  None of us have first hand knowledge, if this is truly the case or not, but, personally "I trust the gun before I trust the Ding Dong here".  This cupelled with the same ambulance chasing lawyer that is essentially pushing all of these lawsuits makes me have questions.  None of which seem to have any substantial evidence to shape my opinion otherwise.    

 

Are we actually going to keep bring up the drop issue?   As far as I am concerned this issue has been addressed by Sig.  If you still think the drop issue is a thing we can agree to disagree here.  

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Boomstick303

[RJH]

15 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I hardly think this is an argument at all, and that is not my intention either.  Just having a constructive discussion.  

 

I will have the discussion with him again so I am not misrepresenting exactly what he said but I do remember Glocks were one of the guns mentioned.  I am discussing LE P320s ADs in general.   We keep hearing that P320s going off in holsters, but only have video of 2 of them.  It is of my opinion that not all of these ADs are in holsters and that many ADs happen due to monkeys monkeying around with firearms and are using this excuse since it is a plausible excuse (and what seems to be all too convenient one) to cover up an LE's AD.  None of us have first hand knowledge, if this is truly the case or not, but, personally "I trust the gun before I trust the Ding Dong here".  This cupelled with the same ambulance chasing lawyer that is essentially pushing all of these lawsuits makes me have questions.  None of which seem to have any substantial evidence to shape my opinion otherwise.    

 

Are we actually going to keep bring up the drop issue?   As far as I am concerned this issue has been addressed by Sig.  If you still think the drop issue is a thing we can agree to disagree here.  

 

 

 

 

I don't know if the drop issue has been fully addressed, there was never a recall on the guns and anybody looking at it objectively would say there should be one. I know there's a new version and it's not so much of an issue there, but since sig never really said they were at fault, it is still an issue to some extent. Because by not issuing a mandatory recall, they are basically saying these guns are good to go, and we know they are not. If any of these old guns out there get dropped and shoot somebody else in the ass, they would probably say it was an issue

 

But when I brought it up I was actually asking if any other guns had had that issue. I don't know of any but that doesn't mean there's not some.

[mmchambers06]

All I know is that every time I RO a shooter with one, I take an extra step back. 

[Boomstick303]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

But when I brought it up I was actually asking if any other guns had had that issue. I don't know of any but that doesn't mean there's not some.

 

I believe there was a CZ dropped back east during make ready that did go off and killed someone.  Yet to hear of a P320 that has killed someone.  So..........

 

[RJH]

29 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I believe there was a CZ dropped back east during make ready that did go off and killed someone.  Yet to hear of a P320 that has killed someone.  So..........

 

 

Pretty sure that was not a stock gun though. Notice I said modern striker fired guns in my original post about that. Not s*** that had been worked over, was hammer down on an extended firing pin and dropped on the hammer, which is what I am pretty sure happened in that case

 

Pretty sure there was a highly massaged m&p that went off sitting in a ladies holster in one of steger's classes, but that's also not what we're talking about here.

 

We're talking about stock guns doing what they were designed for going off in holsters, and when dropped. Hell I didn't even touch on them blowing up yet, but that appears to be an issue as well

[Boomstick303]

The beauty of the world is we can choose what we want to shoot based on personal experiences.   

 

I think it is safe to say that you @RJH will not be shooting any P320  anytime soon.  

 

 

 

[RJH]

9 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

The beauty of the world is we can choose what we want to shoot based on personal experiences.   

 

I think it is safe to say that you @RJH will not be shooting any P320  anytime soon.  

 

 

 

 

I'd say that's a solid bet LOL

 

I am still curious though what your man said about what other guns were going off in the holster, and if any other ones we're going off when dropped. There may be some other guns I don't want to shoot as well

[Boomstick303]

9 minutes ago, RJH said:

I am still curious though what your man said about what other guns were going off in the holster, and if any other ones we're going off when dropped. There may be some other guns I don't want to shoot as well

 

I will get back to you.  I will also get the AD numbers which I was astonished by as well.

 

I will  also ask him about modifications to firearms and how that goes down in his department.