Shadow 2 keeps killing cmore RTS2b

[nkresho]

Hey everybody, just had my fifth rts2b failure on my shadow 2  last week.  Stock slide (optic ready) with aluminum CZC plate.  11# recoil spring and buffer is installed.  Brass ejection is a neat, nice pile about 6' away at about 2-3 oclock.

 

I posted the issue a while back in the open forum and it seemed at the time it was more an issue with my battery tray install.

 

At this point i am convinced otherwise, so checking in with you all to see if it's something others are having happen.

 

Last week's failure was weeks after the battery was installed.  While shooting a course of fire the front of the door just popped outward a tad and the emitter stoped working until i pressed it back in.  Every single time it's the front arm of the metal clip inside the holds onto the tray.  Every time cmore replaces the pcb and it work again.

 

Anybody else have that tab keep breaking off?  I have one rts2 that's been goign strong maybe 5k rounds, most go either in the first 50 or so or about the 1k mark.

[Darqusoull13]

I have not seen that optic last on slide mounted pistols of any make. 

[darthdively]

i would say it is probably the optic. i dont have much experience with RTS2 on a shadow 2 but i do have experience with a p10f with an rts2. it doesnt sound like you are doing anything the rts2 owners around the world aren't doing. your ammo isn't crazy hot, is it? i have heard through the grapevine that shadow 2's are rough on optics but i havent heard anything like that or experienced anything with my shadow 2 with optic like that. the only thing i can think of is ammo being too hot?

[shred]

I have one on a Shadow 2 OR.  Probably 2K rounds through it without issues, but it doesn't get shot a lot these days.

 

[nkresho]

Ammo is about as soft as it gets with 131 PF 147s.  Also, it's the front tab every single time, so the majority of the force would seem to be from returning to battery i'd think.  forward momentum pressure (of the battery's weight) as it reaches home.  With my light recoil spring i am not getting any perceiveable dipping before follow ups on double taps.  Or i have just trained myself to mitigate them?  I guess i could go with a lighter recoil spring, to experiment, but muscle memory has really gotten used to the setup i have now.

 

Yeah, it seems the more threads I read with experiences using the rts2 it's on open guns that aren't battering it back and forth thousands of times.  That little battery drawer retention tab seems to be the weak point.  I have also been getting some minor glass chipping around the edges but it isn't far enough into the FOV to bother me.  Maybe the shadow 2 is rough on optics and, to make it worse, the optic i chose is not up to the high round count of uspsa practice and matches.

 

I think i may need to rethink optic selection for next season.  FTP alpha, maybe, since it's the same footprint. I see it uses screws to retain the battery door.  I'd take that over the quick change of the rts2.  I guess if i were to relinquish warrany coverage i could devise a drilled and tapped screw retention for the rts too.

 

Anybody else got some high round count recommendations for s2OR optics you like?  SRO seems to be one of the most popular i see at matches.  I bet the FTP is also one that's used primarily on frame mounts (as the rts2 seems to be).

 

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by nkresho

[tt350z]

My SRO has been solid. Bought it used so not sure what total round count is. I have over 5500 rounds with it. Currently direct mounted on my Shadow 2 with the Primary Machine Harbinger cut so it’s lighter than OEM and has around 2K rounds on it so far.

[nkresho]

thanks, SRO is definitely one i will be checking out

[darthdively]

i have the eotech eflx and it has held up 6k+ rounds so far on my S2 optics ready

[shred]

I think Grauffel says not to go below 11 lb spring on a S2 to keep from battering sights and if you do, use a buff.

 

When I put a G-metering datalogger on a 2011 slide it was seeing 60G peak at the rear of travel, and not that much less going back into battery.

 

 

 

[HesedTech]

5 hours ago, nkresho said:

thanks, SRO is definitely one i will be checking out

SRO or the new Holosun Comp are probably the toughest large windowed dots. The Alpha Dot may not fit on the plate because it is longer than the RTS2.

 

I have a few SROs and one kind of failed (dot got fuzzy, but was still accurate) and was covered in warranty.

 

The new Holosun is about $100 less than SRO at street prices.

[ColoradoNick]

2 hours ago, shred said:

I think Grauffel says not to go below 11 lb spring on a S2 to keep from battering sights and if you do, use a buff.

 

When I put a G-metering datalogger on a 2011 slide it was seeing 60G peak at the rear of travel, and not that much less going back into battery.

 

 

 

I’m at 3500ish with a 9lb spring and thin buffer. No issues yet with an SRO.

[lroy]

Last match I had my battery tray shoot out on two stages before I gave up and taped it down. I had to find the tray and battery on the floor. Lol

 

I thought it was a random one off, but I guess not.

[HighSpeedFocusedFailure]

What’s the benefit of 11lb? 
 

I shoot 132PF with a 14-15 and get perfect ejection. Gun stays flat too if I do may part on grip. 
 

I’ve never understood why you’d want to go so low. Seems like it would just beat optics and the slide stop to death. 

[nkresho]

I'll play with the spring weight.  I'll try anything at this point.  I went with the 11# based on feel and brass ejection, but if another pound or so is still reliable it's worth a shot to me.  I checked both springs i'm using now and both still gauge 11#, so it's not tired due to round count.  

 

Just threw 12# in there to try out at the range tonight.

[VeilAndrew]

I’m at 10k on an SRO, S2 optics ready with 11# recoil spring.

 

Ive racked it off of fence posts and tables to clear ammunition-related malfunctions and still had no issues

[HesedTech]

16 hours ago, HighSpeedFocusedFailure said:

I’ve never understood why you’d want to go so low. Seems like it would just beat optics and the slide stop to death. 

It doesn't beat the optics or slide to death. Recoil spring weight is all about the dip of the gun when the slide closes. What people do is video the gun, ammo and spring combo and then measure the dip. After many rounds the spring weight with the least dip wins. Typically on a Shadow 2 it comes in around 9-11 pounds.

 

It's also not about ejection.

 

Yes grip is essential, but why not give yourself the best advantage of sight return as possible? Tune the recoil spring to optimize your shooting experience.

Edited July 20, 2023 by HesedTech

[DBX1987]

Rts2 is getting a bad rep here in Europe.

Most guys are switching to delta optical or other rts2 coppy.

They are cheaper and last longer 

[Arcrunner]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:50 AM, HesedTech said:

The Alpha Dot may not fit on the plate because it is longer than the RTS2.

 

 

 

 

There are plates out there for the FTP/R3 Max, I use one for the FTP Alpha, however, it does have to raise the sight to sit on top of the slide. It doesn't bother me, but I know some people want the absolute lowest possible mounting solution.

[motosapiens]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:45 AM, HesedTech said:

It doesn't beat the optics or slide to death. Recoil spring weight is all about the dip of the gun when the slide closes. What people do is video the gun, ammo and spring combo and then measure the dip. After many rounds the spring weight with the least dip wins. Typically on a Shadow 2 it comes in around 9-11 pounds.

 

It's also not about ejection.

 

Yes grip is essential, but why not give yourself the best advantage of sight return as possible? Tune the recoil spring to optimize your shooting experience.

 

or you could just grip the gun and watch the sights. i find when i change springs by a lb or two, it takes me about 10-20 shots to adjust and then then the gun starts coming back to the same spot every time.

 

I use 12lb in my s2 because the 11lb will run into feeding issues sooner when the extractor starts to get a bit dirty. With the 12lb i just clean the extractor when i notice the gun starting to hitch when riding the slide forward at LAMR.

[HesedTech]

On 7/23/2023 at 4:39 PM, motosapiens said:

I use 12lb in my s2 because the 11lb will run into feeding issues sooner when the extractor starts to get a bit dirty. With the 12lb i just clean the extractor when i notice the gun starting to hitch when riding the slide forward at LAMR.

I know people's experiences differ, but for many Ms and GMs in my area lighter weight has worked better for competition use. One even is using a 9 lb recoil spring.

 

As far as feed issues go I have 2 Shadow 2s with 11 lb springs and using coated 147s and feeding and ejecting has never, yes never has been an issue and I do nothing more than a light cleaning around 2K rounds. One of the things I love about my CZs is they run and run. Total trust in their performance.

 

Your comment, 

On 7/23/2023 at 4:39 PM, motosapiens said:

or you could just grip the gun and watch the sights

Is a bit insulting and assumes one doesn't grip the gun well. I made it clear when I wrote this:

 

"Yes grip is essential, but why not give yourself the best advantage of sight return as possible? Tune the recoil spring to optimize your shooting experience."

 

If a 12 lb spring is optimized for you then go for it.

Edited July 29, 2023 by HesedTech

[HesedTech]

On 7/23/2023 at 4:06 PM, Arcrunner said:

but I know some people want the absolute lowest possible mounting solution.

I'm one of those. 

 

I did see the plate offered,  I believe, by Fast Toys. 

[motosapiens]

On 7/29/2023 at 9:17 AM, HesedTech said:

Is a bit insulting and assumes one doesn't grip the gun well. I made it clear when I wrote this:

 

"Yes grip is essential, but why not give yourself the best advantage of sight return as possible? Tune the recoil spring to optimize your shooting experience."

 

If a 12 lb spring is optimized for you then go for it.

I'm only an M in 2 divisions so far, and not likely to make gm at my age, but my experience is that you can tune the spring, and you can also tune your grip. a slightly heavier spring typically gives better reliability, so if I can shoot just as fast and not use the lightest possible spring, I'll probably have more success in matches from having a more reliable and consistent gun.

Edited July 30, 2023 by motosapiens

[HesedTech]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

so if I can shoot just as fast and not use the lightest possible spring, I'll probably have more success in matches from having a more reliable and consistent gun.

So you have confirmed what I wrote, "Tune the recoil spring to optimize your shooting experience."

 

When we were new to the sport we didn't know what to do and as experience grows we optimize to fit our personal style. 

 

[Joe4d]

Cmore is riding their name from the old school Cmore's that were made like iron...  
These compacts are garbage... Cut your losses and buy a trijicon, FTP (be advised no screws) or Holosun, ( watch out for poor names)  For that matter a Venom or Burris has a better track record.

 

[nkresho]

Another one bites the dust...

 

This was midway through a level 2 match.  I was able to finish with this one, but lost the dot the last few rounds of each stage.  Pressing it back in the dot came back on and was good to go for a few more rounds.

 

Most rounds this one saw was with the 11# spring, but had the 12# in when it went.

 

Now that i've taken a peek inside, there's really no way to insert the battery drawer crooked enough to bend the part that broke.  The bottom pic shows it pretty well.  The drawer has a notch in it where the center finger of the battery contact rides.  It holds the drawer pretty straight, aligning the catches on the sides with the notches in the plastic drawer.

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by nkresho