Cracked slide, how can I fix it.

[Reloader98]

So my slide cracked on my shorty open gun. Mine is old and I’m the second or third owner. It’s an older J.L Hardy “Shorty” 4.25 gun with two popple holes in the barrel. The crack is on the edge of the ejection port towards the chamber. Small but undeniable. I only put a few thousand rounds through it but I’m unsure of how many were put through it before me, I’m sure it was a lot. 
 

my question or questions are, can it be repaired and is it worth repairing as compared to a new slide ? 
 

secondly, if getting a new slide for it is the better option, would the frame start to over wear at some point ? And If I decided  to sell the gun after all that, given the slide is made by a different builder, would it be worth less in the resale market with the frame and slide being made by different people? 
 

Eventually I want to buy a brand new open gun built for me so I kinda want to sell this gun eventually so I can help fund a new one. What would you do? 
 

thanks! 

[Explosiveo]

1 minute ago, Reloader98 said:

So my slide cracked on my shorty open gun. Mine is old and I’m the second or third owner. It’s an older J.L Hardy “Shorty” 4.25 gun with two popple holes in the barrel. The crack is on the edge of the ejection port towards the chamber. Small but undeniable. I only put a few thousand rounds through it but I’m unsure of how many were put through it before me, I’m sure it was a lot. 
 

my question or questions are, can it be repaired and is it worth repairing as compared to a new slide ? 
 

secondly, if getting a new slide for it is the better option, would the frame start to over wear at some point ? And If I decided  to sell the gun after all that, given the slide is made by a different builder, would it be worth less in the resale market with the frame and slide being made by different people? 
 

Eventually I want to buy a brand new open gun built for me so I kinda want to sell this gun eventually so I can help fund a new one. What would you do? 
 

thanks! 

You can’t really repair a cracked slide. You have to replace it.

 

it’s worth pretty much nothing with a cracked slide. so replacing the slide will increase the value. That being said, replacing a slide costs a lot of money. Sometimes you have to replace the barrel and comp too. By the time you do that, if it’s a old gun that isn’t worth much you might be better off just putting that money towards a new gun.

Or find someone really reasonably priced to replace the slide.

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, Reloader98 said:

So my slide cracked on my shorty open gun. Mine is old and I’m the second or third owner. It’s an older J.L Hardy “Shorty” 4.25 gun with two popple holes in the barrel. The crack is on the edge of the ejection port towards the chamber. Small but undeniable. I only put a few thousand rounds through it but I’m unsure of how many were put through it before me, I’m sure it was a lot. 
 

my question or questions are, can it be repaired and is it worth repairing as compared to a new slide ? 
 

secondly, if getting a new slide for it is the better option, would the frame start to over wear at some point ? And If I decided  to sell the gun after all that, given the slide is made by a different builder, would it be worth less in the resale market with the frame and slide being made by different people? 
 

Eventually I want to buy a brand new open gun built for me so I kinda want to sell this gun eventually so I can help fund a new one. What would you do? 
 

thanks! 

If you are 2d or 3D owner I think resale value will be pretty low. If you want a new gun I would just get one when you can and forget about what this one may be worth.

[Reloader98]

Thanks for both of y’all’s insight, I did talk to defions arms a while back ( about 6 months ago.) after talking to him about a few things he said the general price for a whole entire new top end of the gun, would be about 1300-1400. Given the price variance across the various different well known brands, does that seem like a good price ? 

[Explosiveo]

Yes. That is a pretty standard price. So if your gun is worth enough that putting 1400 into it will be worth it to you. Then go for it.

 

it’s hard for us to say without seeing the gun. I am not familiar with the builder.

[Sandbagger123]

1 hour ago, Explosiveo said:

You can’t really repair a cracked slide. You have to replace it.

 

it’s worth pretty much nothing with a cracked slide. so replacing the slide will increase the value. That being said, replacing a slide costs a lot of money. Sometimes you have to replace the barrel and comp too. By the time you do that, if it’s a old gun that isn’t worth much you might be better off just putting that money towards a new gun.

Or find someone really reasonably priced to replace the slide.

this is one of the odd things i read about 1911 style slides.  people say they can not be repaired.  before the advent of commercial slides, lots of gun smiths would cut apart slides and weld them back to get what they wanted.   they did not seem to have issues .   lots of thing in the world are welded and if done correctly last a long time 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Sandbagger123

[Explosiveo]

6 minutes ago, Sandbagger123 said:

this is one of the odd things i read about 1911 style slides.  people say they can not be repaired.  before the advent of commercial slides, lots of gun smiths would cut apart slides and weld them back to get what they wanted.   they did not seem to have issues .   lots of thing in the world are welded and if done correctly last a long time 

It’s possible to weld it. If you can find someone to do it and they do a good job. It may not last. It’s more of bandaid then a fix. I don’t think it will add to the value of the gun.

if you tell someone “the slide cracked and I had it welded. Hasn’t Re cracked yet” I would guess that you would have a hard time selling the gun and if you did you would have to lower the price quite a bit.

So while I agree it could work. It’s not really a viable suggestion for his stated goals.

[Reloader98]

Following explosiveo, just based on the aspect of metallurgy, heat treating, and generally finishing  gun after all that ( I’m no expert), and All though it may be a “ band aid” I don’t think it’s a realistic option for long term usage of any firearm. I defiantly want to get a new slide anyway. It’s a matter of figuring out wether or not it’s worth anything for resale a value with a new slide. I’ll ad photos of the gun tomorrow in a link, but it’s really just new slide and keep or new slide and sell to fund new open gun. 

[zzt]

Before you do anything, measure your frame rails.  They may not be wide enough to fit a new slide.

 

A friend cracked the slide on his used Open gun.  He asked me to fit a new slide.  When I measured the width of the frame rails, they were .005" narrower than the narrowest slide ways I could find.   Since that gun had seen many rounds before he bought it, scrapping was a better idea.  I reused what was salvageable when I built the new one.

 

Rather than spend $1400 to have a new top end fitted, I'd buy a new short block and transfer useable parts from your old gun.  Warwick Tactical comes to mind.  https://warwicktactical.com/products/short-block 

Price list.  https://warwicktactical.com/order-forms/2020 Short Block Order Form.pdf

 

They don't show threaded barrels, but they will make you an Open short block if you request it.  Last time I checked they were using Barsto barrels for Open.  You'll end up with a precisely fitted barrel, slide and frame with barrel link and slide stop.  A much better choice, IMO, than reusing your old beat up frame.

[donnyglock]

If the frame is undersized for a new slide have it laser welded and recut it. 

[shred]

Or accu-railed. 

 

Way back when and in countries where parts were hard to come by people would weld cracked slides as a last resort, but you knew it was only a matter of time before it was going to crack again.

 

[Reloader98]

alright gents, sorry I was busy today but here is the link to some photos of the gun. One is up close to the crack. All the others are just to get a general idea of its condition. I wanted to note the left side of the comp has some scratches from when I forgot to take my pocket knife off at a match and it ate through my shorts and a little of my comp lol. 
 

Benos won’t let me add photos directly for some reason so here is a link. 
 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/scu4Bit1ia7toNdQ9

[konkapot]

Lots of good suggestions already. Depending on your finances right now, maybe buy the open gun you want AND get this one repaired. Use this high mileage gun as a backup .

 

Or do it in reverse order; fix this gun and shoot it while the new gun is being built

[RJH]

I zoomed in and it looked more like a dent than a crack from the picture but maybe the picture doesn't show it that well. Overall that gun looks pretty good to me, I think I'd weld it and see what the hell happened, after I made positive it was a crack and not a dent. Of course we're not seeing the internals and there could be a lot of wear on there, but I'd give it a try anyway

[Sarge]

6 hours ago, RJH said:

I zoomed in and it looked more like a dent than a crack from the picture but maybe the picture doesn't show it that well. Overall that gun looks pretty good to me, I think I'd weld it and see what the hell happened, after I made positive it was a crack and not a dent. Of course we're not seeing the internals and there could be a lot of wear on there, but I'd give it a try anyway

Sure looks like the same crack mine had years ago.

[shred]

Pretty standard 1911 slide crack location.  They are often there or on the opposite side forward or back corner.  Thin sections of metal and/or stress concentrators in the high pressure zone.

There's probably an internal bevel on the ejection port and the crack comes off the forward end if you looked from the inside of the slide with the barrel removed.

 

[RJH]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Sure looks like the same crack mine had years ago.

 

[ltdmstr]

That's a pretty simple job for an experienced TiG welder.  If the crack doesn't extend to the rail groove inside, it's an easy fix.  If it does extend to the rail groove, it's still doable, but more work.  Done properly, the welded area will be stronger than the base material.

[Reloader98]

13 hours ago, RJH said:

I zoomed in and it looked more like a dent than a crack from the picture but maybe the picture doesn't show it that well. Overall that gun looks pretty good to me, I think I'd weld it and see what the hell happened, after I made positive it was a crack and not a dent. Of course we're not seeing the internals and there could be a lot of wear on there, but I'd give it a try anyway

Yeah the picture doesn’t do it justice, but the crack actually goes through about half of the metal in the slide itself. It can be seen passing through the material if you look at the slide from a top view (not pictured) when the slide it off. It’s definitely a crack. 
 

and for konkapot I wish I had the fund for that. That’s why I’m going through getting this gun fixed as I would HAVE to sell this one to afford a new open gun. I just graduated college so I don’t have the funds for that unfortunately. 

[Reloader98]

And to follow the original reason for this posting. I’m trying to gauge how much I can expect for a a gun like this, if it had a brand new top end. Because I do want to sell it to fund the new open gun eventually. So if I got a new top end that was about 1300-1400, how much could I expect for this thing? I’ll ad more pics. 

[Reloader98]

Here is the link to a whole bunch of new photos and the old ones. also thanks to all that have contributed. It’s much appreciated. And just to reiterate. Trying to get some info, even from others experiences in doing similar things that are not my exact situation. I ideally want to get a new top end and get somewhat close to paying for s new open gun after selling this, like 3-3.5k maybe more maybe less, just getting an idea on what I can expect as this is obviously s very niche product. 
 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DJTopqQM9gVmThoF8

[Sarge]

8 hours ago, Reloader98 said:

Here is the link to a whole bunch of new photos and the old ones. also thanks to all that have contributed. It’s much appreciated. And just to reiterate. Trying to get some info, even from others experiences in doing similar things that are not my exact situation. I ideally want to get a new top end and get somewhat close to paying for s new open gun after selling this, like 3-3.5k maybe more maybe less, just getting an idea on what I can expect as this is obviously s very niche product. 
 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DJTopqQM9gVmThoF8

Niche is an understatement! If you sell it it will be to a USPSA shooter most likely. Probably on this forum…

 While I fully understand what you are trying to figure out there is no way I would pay $3500 for your gun when I can get a new 9mm Open gun for $4500. 
 It’s a shorty which is not common any more so thumbs down to me.

  If you like the gun, get it fixed and keep shooting it. If you are going to fix it in hopes of selling it I’d think twice.

[sfinney]

JL Hardy Cusutom Mongoose guns were awesome. Top of the line an early mover on the shorty trend. One of the first to get in the 9mm bandwagon which would function.

 

People today that but CNC custom guns that cost more than guns, don’t recycle well. 
 

I’d say:

Just shoot it, crack may not spread. If it does replace the slide. Pretty sure won’t need a full top end if you find a throwback real gunsmith to fit the slide to existing barrel and to weld rails if needed. Also used to be common to install accu-rails on guns with slide fit issues.

 

Wouldn't bother with welding.

 

As it’s an older design, and not the sexy full CNC guns being made today, and Sold new then with 4 mags for about $2700 back around 2000 to 2005. I’d say it’s worth $1200 as is, with mags etc.- and  even with slide replaced probably a $2k gun at tops if slide duplicates Hardy’s work, and us done nicely, finished and runs. Just a ballpark, and I’m no expert……

 

If your goal is to sell it - I’d sell it as is, as a project- before dumping $1500 into fixing it and then trying to sell.

 

Good Luck!

[sauza45]

Don’t know what your skill level is but you could get a short block from Brazos custom and transfer most parts over to the new gun. 
https://www.1911store.com

Edited March 15, 2023 by sauza45

[donnyglock]

6 hours ago, sfinney said:

JL Hardy Cusutom Mongoose guns were awesome. Top of the line an early mover on the shorty trend. One of the first to get in the 9mm bandwagon which would function.

 

People today that but CNC custom guns that cost more than guns, don’t recycle well. 
 

I’d say:

Just shoot it, crack may not spread. If it does replace the slide. Pretty sure won’t need a full top end if you find a throwback real gunsmith to fit the slide to existing barrel and to weld rails if needed. Also used to be common to install accu-rails on guns with slide fit issues.

 

Wouldn't bother with welding.

 

As it’s an older design, and not the sexy full CNC guns being made today, and Sold new then with 4 mags for about $2700 back around 2000 to 2005. I’d say it’s worth $1200 as is, with mags etc.- and  even with slide replaced probably a $2k gun at tops if slide duplicates Hardy’s work, and us done nicely, finished and runs. Just a ballpark, and I’m no expert……

 

If your goal is to sell it - I’d sell it as is, as a project- before dumping $1500 into fixing it and then trying to sell.

 

Good  

I wouldn’t keep shooting it. 

there are a few doing accurails. Many doing laser welding and it’s pretty cheap to have done. All guns that I need to fit a new slide that have fitting issues due to smaller than I’d like frame rails I send to get laser welded. It’s unreal how accurate it is and makes re-cutting the rails a price of cake. And did I mention it’s cheap. Lol. 
 

Edited March 15, 2023 by donnyglock