​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Limited Optics guns--looking for input please

[shred]

Easy fix for the Prodigy 2-piece guide rod is to tote it over to the drill press or mill and put a 1/16" hole straight through in about the right spot.

 

 

[YVK]

https://vudoogunworks.com/priest/

 

Don't know anything about this gun except that I like how slide is widened at the optic's bed. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by YVK

[Zachjet]

You could call Jim at j&M and have him set you up in a SAO tanfoglio.  He’ll have you setup in about a week.. 

and you’ll be well withen your price range 

[jt1207]

@YVK I went to their site and they make a good-looking gun. What piques my interest is their accuracy claims in the two videos I watched. Sub 1" at 25yds with factory ammo.

 

@Zachjet I'm going to google J&M (maybe J&M guns?). Thanks.

[Zachjet]

10 minutes ago, jt1207 said:

@YVK I went to their site and they make a good-looking gun. What piques my interest is their accuracy claims in the two videos I watched. Sub 1" at 25yds with factory ammo.

 

@Zachjet I'm going to google J&M (maybe J&M guns?). Thanks.

I’m so sorry. J&L.  Too early for me, didn’t have my coffee yet 

 

https://www.jandlgunsmithing.com

 

he set me up with my DA/SA TANFO and support has been amazing 

I really love my tanfo.  It’s been flawless for me since I got it back in July/Aug prob hovering around 4k rounds 

[dogtired]

Not much help but if I were to get serious about LO I would add a magwell and a single action trigger to my Shadow 2.

[whan]

I think that unless you're willing to venture into the high dollar custom 2011 territory, you're not really getting much of a performance advantage over the top existing CO platforms. A Shadow 2 that's been mildly worked over will have a single action that's close enough to most production level 2011s like a Staccato or Springfield Prodigy (and you can just run it in condition 1 using the safety)

 

Another underappreciated consideration is reliability. As platforms I do believe that CZs and the top striker guns (P320, Canik) are appreciably more reliable than 2011s and 1911s. From someone who shot single stack as a primary division for 2.5yrs until moving to CO 6 months ago, there's just a lot of extra things that can and sometimes go wrong with the platform. Particularly for 2011s where magazines are still not as sorted out as 9mm 1911 magazines, in addition to being very expensive. 

 

Combined with the fact that LO is still just a provisional division that in theory is still up for change (what happens if they add major PF later on for example), I think it's more prudent to buy a top CO platform like a CZ S2 OR, Tanfo S2 OR, P320, Canik that are competitive in both. Of course this just purely from a practical perspective - I do understand the allure of a nice 1911/2011 having shot an Infinity for most of my time in SS, but I don't think I would've performed any differently if I had shot a tuned Shadow 2 in production instead

Edited March 1, 2023 by whan

[mcmmotorsports]

7 minutes ago, whan said:

Combined with the fact that LO is still just a provisional division…

Not a provisional division yet.

Edited March 1, 2023 by mcmmotorsports

[whan]

7 minutes ago, mcmmotorsports said:

Not a provisional division yet.

 

Was announced this morning that it will be a provisional division, able to be shot starting 5/1/23

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/304564-limited-optics/?do=findComment&comment=3371232

[ranger]

MPA DS9. Love mine - got an early version and they already upgraded it to latest specs for free. MPA is a dominant force in PRS and they are committed to success in USPSA also. 

[mcmmotorsports]

12 minutes ago, whan said:

 

Was announced this morning that it will be a provisional division, able to be shot starting 5/1/23

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/304564-limited-optics/?do=findComment&comment=3371232

My apologies. I am not on IG or fb anymore so I missed that update. Great news!

[whan]

Just now, mcmmotorsports said:

My apologies. I am not on IG or fb anymore so I missed that update. Great news!

 

All good! Will be interesting to see how things end up long term given how similar CO and Provisional LO are in their current states

[WestPat]

Hello jt1207,

I have very little experience, but maybe some insight directly related to this question.  I have a Millenium Custom Limited(STI base) built at a time when Shay Akai and Derek Janowiscz were partners.  It has been maintained over the years and has won several AL state titles and good showings at nationals with the previous owner. It is smooth as silk with no wobble or wiggle and a fresh trigger job right before I bought it.  That is my baseline.   This week I bought a MPA DS9 Hybrid.  3100 tax and all at my LGS(Brick and Mortar site for GunPrime.com) I believe that as the DS9 relaxes into itself, it will surpass the MC.

I was also able to handle new Staccato XL and C-2, Wilson Combat FX-9, and an STI DVC carry, side by side by side. The DS9 as a total package was far superior to all of them. The fit, finish, and handling of that DS9 is so far above each of those guns, and is also comes with a tag stating the measured trigger pull of each gun.    It is signed by the single gunsmith that built it, and initialed DL for Inspection.  Turns out that is David Lyell, USPSA Grandmaster.  I found a video where he states that he handles each gun before it leaves the facility.

Here's what else YouTubes and the Interwebs taught me:

MPA bough CK(Cheely/Keigan) Arms and employed Bobby Keigan and staff to continue building for them.  

The first 300 guns or so had some growing pains, but every negative review was followed by a glowing review of how MPA took the guns back and smoothed, polished, and retrofitted as needed.  They build 90%+ of the parts in house, and it would be my guess that the problem guns happened when all of that was coming online.

My S/N is north of 01000.

Check out the videos from user X-Ring and TheHumbleMarksman.  Easy to watch, good accuracy tests.

They are expanding with specific guns for USPSA Open, Limited Optic, and IDPA, but from what I can tell they are all based on the DS9 Hybrid.

The Aluminum Agressive grip(I have) seems to be the grip that everyone gravitates to, and it absolutely welds the gun to my medium sized hands.

I had to go to work to pay for this beast, so I have only ad time to put 35 rounds through it, with MBX and STI 140mm mags.  The wife and 9yo shot it as well.  They got 10, 10 and I got 15.  It has Kensight irons with red fiber front post.  It shoots where its pointed and fed the entire mix of Federal Premium and my JHP handloads.

I think this second gen of the DS9 is a well kept secret because of the stigmas of the early guns.  I think that the more they make it out into the wild, the more demand will increase.

I hope these are helpful points, and if you can find one, I think you will be well served purchasing one.  The optic plate is an addition $150 with free shipping from MPA and they have Vortex, Leupold, RMR and co-witness options for each one.

Hopefully this helps!

David

 

[mrvip27]

13 hours ago, WestPat said:

Hello jt1207,

I have very little experience, but maybe some insight directly related to this question.  I have a Millenium Custom Limited(STI base) built at a time when Shay Akai and Derek Janowiscz were partners.  It has been maintained over the years and has won several AL state titles and good showings at nationals with the previous owner. It is smooth as silk with no wobble or wiggle and a fresh trigger job right before I bought it.  That is my baseline.   This week I bought a MPA DS9 Hybrid.  3100 tax and all at my LGS(Brick and Mortar site for GunPrime.com) I believe that as the DS9 relaxes into itself, it will surpass the MC.

I was also able to handle new Staccato XL and C-2, Wilson Combat FX-9, and an STI DVC carry, side by side by side. The DS9 as a total package was far superior to all of them. The fit, finish, and handling of that DS9 is so far above each of those guns, and is also comes with a tag stating the measured trigger pull of each gun.    It is signed by the single gunsmith that built it, and initialed DL for Inspection.  Turns out that is David Lyell, USPSA Grandmaster.  I found a video where he states that he handles each gun before it leaves the facility.

Here's what else YouTubes and the Interwebs taught me:

MPA bough CK(Cheely/Keigan) Arms and employed Bobby Keigan and staff to continue building for them.  

The first 300 guns or so had some growing pains, but every negative review was followed by a glowing review of how MPA took the guns back and smoothed, polished, and retrofitted as needed.  They build 90%+ of the parts in house, and it would be my guess that the problem guns happened when all of that was coming online.

My S/N is north of 01000.

Check out the videos from user X-Ring and TheHumbleMarksman.  Easy to watch, good accuracy tests.

They are expanding with specific guns for USPSA Open, Limited Optic, and IDPA, but from what I can tell they are all based on the DS9 Hybrid.

The Aluminum Agressive grip(I have) seems to be the grip that everyone gravitates to, and it absolutely welds the gun to my medium sized hands.

I had to go to work to pay for this beast, so I have only ad time to put 35 rounds through it, with MBX and STI 140mm mags.  The wife and 9yo shot it as well.  They got 10, 10 and I got 15.  It has Kensight irons with red fiber front post.  It shoots where its pointed and fed the entire mix of Federal Premium and my JHP handloads.

I think this second gen of the DS9 is a well kept secret because of the stigmas of the early guns.  I think that the more they make it out into the wild, the more demand will increase.

I hope these are helpful points, and if you can find one, I think you will be well served purchasing one.  The optic plate is an addition $150 with free shipping from MPA and they have Vortex, Leupold, RMR and co-witness options for each one.

Hopefully this helps!

David

 

 

I mean I am glad they have awesome customer service, etc...but they keep posting current gun photos on Instagram with horrible blending (grip safety to grip/frame) and even machine marks on the grip and mainspring housing. And the gaps seem to be inconsistently huge or tight between the beaver tail and frame. I feel at the price point. it should be better blended. It should not be leaving the facility having to be sent back to be blended, smoothed, etc...my .02.

[WestPat]

I am just trying to share my findings and experience, as limited as they are.  I don't want to become an MPA apologist, but I will say this.  The guns on IG are all non-serialized guns that are probably displays and mockups that they have been used over and over.  Next to the other guns in the $3K range that I have handled, my DS9 fit, finish, and feel is better than all of them.  

I would love to attach pictures of my own gun, but I am having trouble meeting the size requirements even though it says that my pics are only 3.8mB.  Any tips on that?

I believe their problems are in the past, and I hope they continue to get better and better.

David

 

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, WestPat said:

I am just trying to share my findings and experience, as limited as they are.  I don't want to become an MPA apologist, but I will say this.  The guns on IG are all non-serialized guns that are probably displays and mockups that they have been used over and over.  Next to the other guns in the $3K range that I have handled, my DS9 fit, finish, and feel is better than all of them.  

I would love to attach pictures of my own gun, but I am having trouble meeting the size requirements even though it says that my pics are only 3.8mB.  Any tips on that?

I believe their problems are in the past, and I hope they continue to get better and better.

David

 

 

Take a screenshot of your picture, then post the screenshot. It took me forever to figure that out 

[WestPat]

Thanks!

[rennD]

I'd vote for Staccato P or a used XL to be under the OP's price requirement. 

[WestPat]

The mark on the slide and above the slide release are fingerprint smudges.  I took the pictures at the gun store before I decided to buy.

[jt1207]

@WestPat thank you for the input. Perspectives like yours, @mrvip27, and the others are what I was looking for to inform my decision. And to post pictures, I do exactly what @RJH recommends--screenshot your photo and post the screenshot.

 

[WestPat]

You are welcome.  Good luck in finding the perfect gun, and safe shooting!

David 

[JD40]

@WestPat that mpa looks great!  
 

do you guys feel that a 4.25 inch gun is a disadvantage for LO?  I have a staccato p and a prodigy that will work, but I have have never shot a gun that short in competition before. Most is my Matches have been shot with 6 inch limited guns ?

 

joe 

[mrvip27]

31 minutes ago, JD40 said:

@WestPat that mpa looks great!  
 

do you guys feel that a 4.25 inch gun is a disadvantage for LO?  I have a staccato p and a prodigy that will work, but I have have never shot a gun that short in competition before. Most is my Matches have been shot with 6 inch limited guns ?

 

joe 

 

Not not at all. It will just "feel" (subjective) snappier and will return faster.

 

Shoot it enough, it won't matter. Its all preference. Some guys like the long barrels. But most feel it can be too "clunky".

[WestPat]

JD40  its very well balanced and the undercuts and aggressive aluminum grip just weld it into position.  I ordered a holster from them and got to talk directly to David Lyell who is a USPSA Grandmaster and head of tech support for them.  I'm not sure what other custom gun works give you direct access to an expert end user of the product.  When I was researching it, I read several many posts from people who had contacted him directly and he helped them plan and order a gun based on each person's needs.  I'm new to shooting sports, but I think that is excellent customer service.

[JD40]

Thanks!