Steel Challenge Revo loads

[Makicjf]

In ya'lls opinion, are lighter than 129-130 PF loads helpful in ISR and OSR?  I've never bothered with a different load.  I just run my regular 158-160 bullets at 129 pf. I actually use 38 special cases and "slow" loaders for steel challenge.  It keeps me from wasting time mooning and demooning. Both loads shoot the same place from my irons and optic gun.

Are lighter, slower bullets worth the work? I'm afraid poi would change.

Jason

I lik

[AzShooter]

I used my regular .38 loads and 9 mm when I switched to a 929.  Lighter loads didn't seem to help me that much and I didn't want to change my press that often.

 

When I shot my 625 I did have special loads of 3 grains of Bullseye with a 230 RLN.  They were so slow we could watch them going to the target.  I've run my fastest time with the 625 at 119 seconds.

 

Now I'm just old enough to remember the good times

[varminter22]

I think there may be a little advantage to using a lighter bullet at a lower PF, but I wouldn't recommend going too low.  

 

I loaded some 105 gr bullets in .38 Short Colt at PF of about 63.  Yes, 63!  (Load came right from Hodgdon as there are light loads for the really old Short Colt revolvers.)  They work, but are rather disconcerting as it seems to take forever for the bullet to reach the steel target!  I'll likely just go with my regular USPSA/ICORE load.  

 

I did read once of a top Steel Challenge shooter talk of loading to around 90 to 100 PF for his autoloader.  That might be a good idea.  

 

But is it worth it?  For me, I have doubts!  

[pskys2]

57 minutes ago, AzShooter said:

I used my regular .38 loads and 9 mm when I switched to a 929.  Lighter loads didn't seem to help me that much and I didn't want to change my press that often.

 

When I shot my 625 I did have special loads of 3 grains of Bullseye with a 230 RLN.  They were so slow we could watch them going to the target.  I've run my fastest time with the 625 at 119 seconds.

 

Now I'm just old enough to remember the good times

Same here on the .45 except I used 185 swc's. 

But for the OP, I ran some 124 JHP's with my USPSA load powder charge and recoil was really light and accuracy was real good.  It did make a difference and if I was going to get serious I might try something similar again.

The problems though are:

1) POI does change

2) JHP's are more expensive than I want to spend and light Coated aren't as accurate as the 160's

3) The extra work required usually hinders my real pursuit of ICORE/USPSA

So for me the downsides are more trouble than gain and I just stick with my USPSA loads for everything.  But if I was going to the World Speed Championships I'd make the extra effort and get dialed in.

The specific load was a MG 124 JHP over 2.7 Clays for 750 f/s and 85 PF and 3" 25 yd accuracy for 8 shots, 5 shots in 3/4" and 3 outside to 3".  Seemed to be a good load, now I'm using 3.0 ClayDot with a 160 BBI RN for 850 f/s and 136 PF and 2 1/2" 25 yard groups.  My times are slower with the heavier load.

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by pskys2

[MWP]

1 hour ago, Makicjf said:

In ya'lls opinion, are lighter than 129-130 PF loads helpful in ISR and OSR?  I've never bothered with a different load.  I just run my regular 158-160 bullets at 129 pf. I actually use 38 special cases and "slow" loaders for steel challenge.  It keeps me from wasting time mooning and demooning. Both loads shoot the same place from my irons and optic gun.

Are lighter, slower bullets worth the work? I'm afraid poi would change.

Jason

I lik

Experiment with it. It’s a personal thing. 
 

Most of the top auto SC shooters, and I’m talking about the main match, not the side match, are shooting Atlanta’s SC load. That’s roughly a 110-115pf in most full size guns- a 100gr bullet going 1100-1150. 
 

When revolver had an extremely tight field at the WSSC, it seems 95-105gr bullets going 650-850 was popular.
 

Personally, I didn’t have a positive experience shooting loads that slow. I was doubling long shots that were hits, the gun felt slow to recoil and level back out, and it just set a pace that I wasn’t fond of. All I’m doing now is leaving the press as I load it for 151s at 133pf, and using a 115 coated for SC. It’s 1050-1100, and in a 929 with over 1/2 a pound removed from the barrel, it recoils similarly to a full weight 929 with 133pf ammo. For me I can switch between SC guns and ammo and icore/uspsa guns and ammo seamlessly, where with a lighter 80-90pf load I was uncomfortable with the timing. 

Another warning about 38 special and light bullets and light charges: there’s a lot of volume in there. I tried light loads in 38s a few years back and couldn’t find the needed consistency with all that case volume to get a lid I trusted. As soon as I started using shorter cases that was solved. 

[GOF]

There is no PF is SCSA, so just to play I brought out my .38 Spl six-shot ICORE Classic gun and gave it a go. I did find that 115-125 grain coated lead bullet wimp loads were effective, but I also found that I needed a minimum of 720 fps to get a bang/ting instead of a bang/pause/ting.  Getting 720 fps still made a light recoiling load, softer than the 160 125 PF loads I used in ICORE. A six-shot gun isn't competitive in Steel Challenge, but I did manage to work my way into B class ISR with it.  The right velocity is important for a smooth rhythm. It also helps to have a sense of humor if you're shooting a six-shot gun.    

Edited August 12, 2022 by GOF

[Makicjf]

49 minutes ago, MWP said:

Experiment with it. It’s a personal thing. 
 

Most of the top auto SC shooters, and I’m talking about the main match, not the side match, are shooting Atlanta’s SC load. That’s roughly a 110-115pf in most full size guns- a 100gr bullet going 1100-1150. 
 

When revolver had an extremely tight field at the WSSC, it seems 95-105gr bullets going 650-850 was popular.
 

Personally, I didn’t have a positive experience shooting loads that slow. I was doubling long shots that were hits, the gun felt slow to recoil and level back out, and it just set a pace that I wasn’t fond of. All I’m doing now is leaving the press as I load it for 151s at 133pf, and using a 115 coated for SC. It’s 1050-1100, and in a 929 with over 1/2 a pound removed from the barrel, it recoils similarly to a full weight 929 with 133pf ammo. For me I can switch between SC guns and ammo and icore/uspsa guns and ammo seamlessly, where with a lighter 80-90pf load I was uncomfortable with the timing. 

Another warning about 38 special and light bullets and light charges: there’s a lot of volume in there. I tried light loads in 38s a few years back and couldn’t find the needed consistency with all that case volume to get a lid I trusted. As soon as I started using shorter cases that was solved. 

Thanks!

I've had the same pfffft experience with light (125 grain) bullets in 38 cases.  The lightest I feel comfortable with is a 160 over 3.2 of bullseye ( the same charge as my USPSA loads) 

I shot some super light loads a week ago and as you stated, the rythem was off.

I'll shoot up my what I have and see where I end up.

Thanks!

[Darqusoull13]

3 hours ago, Makicjf said:

In ya'lls opinion, are lighter than 129-130 PF loads helpful in ISR and OSR?  I've never bothered with a different load.  I just run my regular 158-160 bullets at 129 pf. I actually use 38 special cases and "slow" loaders for steel challenge.  It keeps me from wasting time mooning and demooning. Both loads shoot the same place from my irons and optic gun.

Are lighter, slower bullets worth the work? I'm afraid poi would change.

Jason

We both know you'll shoot awesome no matter what you load. 

Unless you're planning on going to WSSC, there's no point in loading up special stuff. 

If you are planning on going to WSSC, I would prep for 2 months with those actually proper sized bullets in the Short Colt. Once you get used to it, the lighter load was more like shooting your 22LR Glock instead of a Glock 19 with normal 9mm. There was a huge speed advantage that paid off in Roundabout, Smoke and Hope and Showdown in particular. Tracking the dot on those tiny transitions in Showdown was trivial with the light stuff.

POI did change but if you run the same light loads for 2 months, no big deal. 

[MWP]

1 hour ago, Makicjf said:

Thanks!

I've had the same pfffft experience with light (125 grain) bullets in 38 cases.  The lightest I feel comfortable with is a 160 over 3.2 of bullseye ( the same charge as my USPSA loads) 

I shot some super light loads a week ago and as you stated, the rythem was off.

I'll shoot up my what I have and see where I end up.

Thanks!

Hit me up if you want to talk about it sometime.

 

I’ve seen your scores and shooting- I vote you build yourself a couple of dedicated SC revos and really come down the SC road. 

[pskys2]

4 hours ago, MWP said:

Experiment with it. It’s a personal thing. 
 

Most of the top auto SC shooters, and I’m talking about the main match, not the side match, are shooting Atlanta’s SC load. That’s roughly a 110-115pf in most full size guns- a 100gr bullet going 1100-1150. 
 

When revolver had an extremely tight field at the WSSC, it seems 95-105gr bullets going 650-850 was popular.
 

Personally, I didn’t have a positive experience shooting loads that slow. I was doubling long shots that were hits, the gun felt slow to recoil and level back out, and it just set a pace that I wasn’t fond of. All I’m doing now is leaving the press as I load it for 151s at 133pf, and using a 115 coated for SC. It’s 1050-1100, and in a 929 with over 1/2 a pound removed from the barrel, it recoils similarly to a full weight 929 with 133pf ammo. For me I can switch between SC guns and ammo and icore/uspsa guns and ammo seamlessly, where with a lighter 80-90pf load I was uncomfortable with the timing. 

Another warning about 38 special and light bullets and light charges: there’s a lot of volume in there. I tried light loads in 38s a few years back and couldn’t find the needed consistency with all that case volume to get a lid I trusted. As soon as I started using shorter cases that was solved. 

The loads I listed were 38 short colts.  Many a Bullseye gun disassembled itself with 38 specials and 148 wadcutters with real light Bullseye Powder loads, I think around 2 to 2.5 grains.  The working theory was the case volume and light charge of fast powder  would allow the powder to lay along case and the primer would flash over the whole charge, igniting it at once and exponentially raising pressures.  Many scoffed at the idea but a new 38 special m10 should have been able to handle even a triple charge of that load.

It happened enough to definitely not be a fluke.

[MWP]

22 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

The loads I listed were 38 short colts.  Many a Bullseye gun disassembled itself with 38 specials and 148 wadcutters with real light Bullseye Powder loads, I think around 2 to 2.5 grains.  The working theory was the case volume and light charge of fast powder  would allow the powder to lay along case and the primer would flash over the whole charge, igniting it at once and exponentially raising pressures.  Many scoffed at the idea but a new 38 special m10 should have been able to handle even a triple charge of that load.

It happened enough to definitely not be a fluke.

No it’s a thing. I’ve seen it myself. There’s a reason load charts don’t start at zero. 

[SIGcurious]

Side question: Are most of the top shooters in SC using 929s?  Do any of them use 627s or other?

[Makicjf]

7 hours ago, MWP said:

Hit me up if you want to talk about it sometime.

 

I’ve seen your scores and shooting- I vote you build yourself a couple of dedicated SC revos and really come down the SC road. 

I really enjoy steel challenge.  Hopefully the hand issues that have plagued me over the last year and a half are over;. I'll be able to dry fire, practice and shoot Revo again.  

  Your statement made me realize I already have a dedicated OSR gun in my R8. I had to intended focus on finishing the last 2.5 or 3 % I need anyway.  I can easily adjust the dot for lighter loads.

I'll just use the 130 pf for USPSA.

I should put together an iron sight gun, too.

I prefer the 627.  I've always found the 4 inch to be handier than the 5.  Do you think a 4 inch 627 could make a quick ISR gun?  Or could another R8 be the go to gun?

Jason

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by Makicjf

[Makicjf]

8 hours ago, Darqusoull13 said:

We both know you'll shoot awesome no matter what you load. 

Unless you're planning on going to WSSC, there's no point in loading up special stuff. 

If you are planning on going to WSSC, I would prep for 2 months with those actually proper sized bullets in the Short Colt. Once you get used to it, the lighter load was more like shooting your 22LR Glock instead of a Glock 19 with normal 9mm. There was a huge speed advantage that paid off in Roundabout, Smoke and Hope and Showdown in particular. Tracking the dot on those tiny transitions in Showdown was trivial with the light stuff.

POI did change but if you run the same light loads for 2 months, no big deal. 

Thanks.  

I have every intention of going to the WSSC.  Hopefully in ISR, OSR and RFPI.  Will you be my coach?

Jason

[MWP]

3 hours ago, SIGcurious said:

Side question: Are most of the top shooters in SC using 929s?  Do any of them use 627s or other?

929s, 627s, and now that Ruger has the 8 shot gun out their team shooters use it, and finish well with it. 
 

There’s no practical difference between a 929 and 627 in SC. Barrel length would be the only argument. 

[MWP]

2 hours ago, Makicjf said:

I really enjoy steel challenge.  Hopefully the hand issues that have plagued me over the last year and a half are over;. I'll be able to dry fire, practice and shoot Revo again.  

  Your statement made me realize I already have a dedicated OSR gun in my R8. I had to intended focus on finishing the last 2.5 or 3 % I need anyway.  I can easily adjust the dot for lighter loads.

I'll just use the 130 pf for USPSA.

I should put together an iron sight gun, too.

I prefer the 627.  I've always found the 4 inch to be handier than the 5.  Do you think a 4 inch 627 could make a quick ISR gun?  Or could another R8 be the go to gun?

Jason

 

Personally I’d try to make the guns as similar as possible. A pair of r8’s would be a nice combination, and make having a backup on hand when out of town at a big match. There’s nothing wrong with a 4” 627 if you’re good with that barrel length, I just prefer a longer ISR gun for myself. 

[Squirrel45]

the 4" does seem shortish for ISR in my opinion. However I do agree that the 4" moves nicely compared to longer barreled 627's. I run a 929 in ICORE limited and soon a 627 4" in open. I will add this I saw a GM run at area 7 in ISR he was running a 929 stock barrel. I was unfortunate and did not see what he ran in OSR. However I did speak with him during the intermission and  he told me he was running a carbon fiber setup in open.  Either way I think somewhere a 100PF is the spot. 

 

 

Squirrel 

[GMM50]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:42 AM, varminter22 said:

I think there may be a little advantage to using a lighter bullet at a lower PF, but I wouldn't recommend going too low.  

 

I loaded some 105 gr bullets in .38 Short Colt at PF of about 63.  Yes, 63!  (Load came right from Hodgdon as there are light loads for the really old Short Colt revolvers.)  They work, but are rather disconcerting as it seems to take forever for the bullet to reach the steel target!  I'll likely just go with my regular USPSA/ICORE load.  

 

I did read once of a top Steel Challenge shooter talk of loading to around 90 to 100 PF for his autoloader.  That might be a good idea.  

 

But is it worth it?  For me, I have doubts!  

Cowboy Loads.  Very popular in SASS

[MWP]

4 hours ago, Squirrel45 said:

the 4" does seem shortish for ISR in my opinion. However I do agree that the 4" moves nicely compared to longer barreled 627's. I run a 929 in ICORE limited and soon a 627 4" in open. I will add this I saw a GM run at area 7 in ISR he was running a 929 stock barrel. I was unfortunate and did not see what he ran in OSR. However I did speak with him during the intermission and  he told me he was running a carbon fiber setup in open.  Either way I think somewhere a 100PF is the spot. 

 

 

Squirrel 

Carbon life!

[Sinister4]

.38  125 grain blue bullet Trailboss  at around 650-700 fps  for me  

[Carmoney]

You guys are stilling passing along the old wives' tale of super-light Bullseye loads supposedly causing "detonations" and blowing up guns?  

 

Come on.  That story was debunked in the testing laboratory back in the '70s.    

[thermobollocks]

I've never had POI issues going from a 147 grain minor bullet to a 105 grain sub-minor, at the distances involved in Steel Challenge, at least. What does it for me is whether you practice enough with the light loads to actually realize any speed gains, or are you really putting in the reps with minor and just "going light" for steel because you can? In my case, if I'm not practicing consistently with the light loads, I'm not realizing a benefit.

 

Also 2.8 grains of Clays with a Bayou 105 in a Short Colt case is hilariously fun.

[gargoil66]

FWIW, I do think that the lighter bullets moving at the 1K fps range are better for me than heavier ones.

 

I like the 105 grain truncated cone bullets that various bullet makers cast and coat.  

 

Key is to get them into that 1000 to 1100 fps range.  

 

I shot a bunch of 127 and 130's this summer because a fellow shooter was selling them at a good price.  They shot fine but were pretty slow getting to 35 yards.

 

GG

Edited August 27, 2022 by gargoil66