Atlas vs everyone else

[X5SigChris]

1 hour ago, caspian guy said:

Yep if you aren't badly infected with new gun disease it's a good idea in 2 ways ...  1 Use it as a chance to try things and find out what you like... 2 eventually when/if you decide to get a custom gun built this will give you a good backup.

Oh you have it mistaken. I’ll always still “just want new guns”. Hahaha. It’s 100% a crutch.  But I defiantly see your point 

[caspian guy]

2 hours ago, X5SigChris said:

Oh you have it mistaken. I’ll always still “just want new guns”. Hahaha. It’s 100% a crutch.  But I defiantly see your point 

Oh I get new gunitis completely

[motosapiens]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:03 PM, ltdmstr said:

Fair points.  For the Atlas, even if they're good parts, build, etc., they don't represent a good value to me because they're borderline overpriced to start with (my own personal opinion), then to add in the cost of all the stuff I'd have to change plus the cost to refinish the gun, and it's just not worth it.  I can get better quality parts built the way I want from reputable builder(s) for significantly less money.  But, there must have plenty of people who like them as they are because they sure sell a lot of guns.

well duh. No expensive gun is really worth it if you have to change a bunch of things and refinish it. OTOH, if i bought a custom gun, it would look pretty much exactly like an atlas titan, so that's what I got. 25k or so rounds later it's still very tight and accurate.

[X5SigChris]

46 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

25k or so rounds later

Any major retuning needed by atlas? If so, how was that process

[ltdmstr]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

well duh. No expensive gun is really worth it if you have to change a bunch of things and refinish it. OTOH, if i bought a custom gun, it would look pretty much exactly like an atlas titan, so that's what I got. 25k or so rounds later it's still very tight and accurate.

 

It's great that you're happy with their off the shelf gun.  Most people I know would change at least a few parts, and others would change a lot of parts.  A $5k+ gun with zero options and mismatched parts is not real attractive for a lot of people.

[motosapiens]

18 hours ago, X5SigChris said:

Any major retuning needed by atlas? If so, how was that process

i just replace springs and small parts when necessary. (extractor, ejector, and mag catch have all been replaced.

a decent 1911/2011 should be able to go much more than 25k rounds before needing serious work.

[motosapiens]

18 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

 

It's great that you're happy with their off the shelf gun.  Most people I know would change at least a few parts, and others would change a lot of parts.  A $5k+ gun with zero options and mismatched parts is not real attractive for a lot of people.

Titan is $4k. not cheap, but at the time I got mine for $3700, the other choices were putting  steel grip on an STI DVC (would have been a couple hundo cheaper, but definitely not as nice a gun), or getting a full custom gun for significantly more. I think it fills a reasonable niche for many people, but people who want full custom should just get full custom guns and be happy.

[X5SigChris]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

I think it fills a reasonable niche for many people

This is pretty accurate. The guys that want a full custom know who to call. They also know their wallet is going to be significantly lighter. It appears to me that atlas, PT, etc. fills that “middle” void well of having a gun that is tighter all around. 

[ltdmstr]

39 minutes ago, X5SigChris said:

This is pretty accurate. The guys that want a full custom know who to call. They also know their wallet is going to be significantly lighter. It appears to me that atlas, PT, etc. fills that “middle” void well of having a gun that is tighter all around. 

 

Not sure how you consider Atlas mid-range pricing when a Titan is $4k and Nemesis is $6k.  That seems pretty high end to me.  And you can certainly get a full custom gun for that money from a number of reputable builders or even SV.

[Balakay]

1 hour ago, X5SigChris said:

This is pretty accurate. The guys that want a full custom know who to call. They also know their wallet is going to be significantly lighter. It appears to me that atlas, PT, etc. fills that “middle” void well of having a gun that is tighter all around. 

Atlas Chaos costs more than my soon to be delivered SVI.  It is a non-custom gun with a custom price.  That is not to say it doesn't shoot well but it hardly occupies the "middle void" of pricing

[ima45dv8]

2 hours ago, X5SigChris said:

The guys that want a full custom know who to call. They also know their wallet is going to be significantly lighter. It appears to me that atlas, PT, etc. fills that “middle” void well of having a gun that is tighter all around. 

The Brazos Semi-Custom line also fills that void very nicely.

I don't know their current pricing for them, but mine is well built and has been trouble-free. 

[motosapiens]

4 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

The Brazos Semi-Custom line also fills that void very nicely.

I don't know their current pricing for them, but mine is well built and has been trouble-free. 

the brazos guns are very attractive and have a great reputation. looking at the current pricing ($4100 for limited gun with steel grip) i would say they would be an excellent choice. If that had been available 2-3 years ago, I might well have gone that direction.

[ima45dv8]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

If that had been available 2-3 years ago, I might well have gone that direction.

I thought they were. Mine was built ~2003. 

Maybe they stopped building them for a while (?).

[motosapiens]

Just now, ima45dv8 said:

I thought they were. Mine was built ~2003. 

Maybe they stopped building them for a while (?).

maybe i was just dumb and clueless. I thought it was a new thing.  

[ima45dv8]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

maybe i was just dumb and clueless

I was told that's why I'm hunch-backed and bald-headed.

When someone asks me a question I shrug, and when they tell me the answer I slap myself on the head.

[scooterj]

We can throw MPA into the ring. The DS40 TT lists for $3000 with aluminum grip. Add on another $500 if you want a stainless grip. 

[X5SigChris]

My bad I suppose. The last time I window shopped on infinity’s site, it was over double the price of a titan. So I was only going off of that. 

[RangerTrace]

15 hours ago, scooterj said:

We can throw MPA into the ring. The DS40 TT lists for $3000 with aluminum grip. Add on another $500 if you want a stainless grip. 

I don't get the additional cost for steel vs aluminum.  They both require machining and the stainless wouldn't have to go out for coating.

[donnyglock]

54 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

I don't get the additional cost for steel vs aluminum.  They both require machining and the stainless wouldn't have to go out for coating.

So your saying the large block of stainless steel costs the same as the aluminum block. Lol. Plus I would definitely think machining aluminum is easier on cutters. 

[yigal]

2 minutes ago, donnyglock said:

So your saying the large block of stainless steel costs the same as the aluminum block. Lol. Plus I would definitely think machining aluminum is easier on cutters. 

It depends on which country you ordered the metal from. There are several countries from which you ordered stainless steel and received a rusty lump of unknown metal with holes like Swiss cheese

[scooterj]

26 minutes ago, donnyglock said:

So your saying the large block of stainless steel costs the same as the aluminum block. Lol. Plus I would definitely think machining aluminum is easier on cutters. 

Machine time and coating costs also should be figured in. 

[RangerTrace]

1 hour ago, donnyglock said:

So your saying the large block of stainless steel costs the same as the aluminum block. Lol. Plus I would definitely think machining aluminum is easier on cutters. 

I'm saying I understand the cost to upgrade from a plastic grip.  Looking a AGW prices, I don't see a $500 difference between Aluminum/Steel.  Nor did I with Cheely or CKARMS.

[Sinister4]

1 hour ago, RangerTrace said:

I'm saying I understand the cost to upgrade from a plastic grip.  Looking a AGW prices, I don't see a $500 difference between Aluminum/Steel.  Nor did I with Cheely or CKARMS.

Well when I had my shop rule of thumb machining time, (depending on the part) triple for stainless over aluminum. Aluminum cuts like butter, stainless not so much

[ltdmstr]

I haven't seen their grips, but it's possible the aluminum grip is made from a casting and the stainless is machined from billet.  That would certainly explain the difference in cost/price.

[mikeg1005]

All 2011s that are built with similar configurations will shoot very very similar to each other to the point where it will probably not matter which name is written on the slide.  

The biggest factor as to how the gun will shoot is recoil spring and main spring weights.  Those change recoil impulse and how the sights track more than anything.  

 

The nemesis is a sight block gun.  It'll shoot similar to guns that have sight blocks or an island barrel.  If you get a 2011, get a steel grip, whose make, doesn't matter they're all good and they all break.  Each has slight variation in how they feel but I wouldn't stress to much about this you'll eventually get accustom to whichever one. 

 

After shooting 2011s for a while, here's what I think is most important when shopping for them.

 

-Company or builder with good service so when it breaks (they all do with enough rounds) they'll help you get the gun up with a short turn around time.

-Has the parts on it that YOU like and not that the builder chooses. 

-Doesn't have any proprietary stuff on it that you can't buy replacement parts for quickly (oddball sight dovetail cut, etc.)

-Has a steel grip.

 

The rest is fluff... you'll end up shooting the same ability with all the guns once you're used to 'your' gun.