Skeeter44 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Hey guys, so I need some help. I acquired an open setup. It is chambered in 38 Super. It is not stamped 38 super comp. I guess these are the same thing? One is rimless? I dont fully understand what that means as I am new to the caliber. I need help!! I dont know what die set to buy, I was told to use 3N38 powder. I did a search on here and didnt find too many specific answers. Maybe I am asking too much?? I want to learn I just would prefer not to buy stuff that isnt needed/ wont work. Any help is greatly appreciated and the more specific, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 The 38 Super has a semi-rimmed case. The SuperComp makes it a true rimless for improved feeding. The same dies for each of them as nobly the shell holder will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Vihtavuori 3N38 is a suitable powder for loading the 38 Super to Major power factor. 3N37 and N350 have also been popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremyc_1999 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Depending on the pistol, you should be able to run 38 super comp with an extractor change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter44 Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 Anyone have any die recommendations? Thank you for the responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 I'm not aware of any that are not doing the job. I've generally used Redding, RCBS and Dillon. These days it may be more of what you can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter44 Posted November 4, 2021 Author Share Posted November 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Guy Neill said: I'm not aware of any that are not doing the job. I've generally used Redding, RCBS and Dillon. These days it may be more of what you can find. So as long as it says 38 super on the box, I should be good to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Skeeter44 said: So as long as it says 38 super on the box, I should be good to go? yes Some of us mix and match dies. I like the Redding Competition Seating die myself and other are true believers in the Lee U-dies for sizing. Like Guy said, start with what's available. What press are you loading on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoeShooting Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 4 hours ago, warpspeed said: yes Some of us mix and match dies. I like the Redding Competition Seating die myself and other are true believers in the Lee U-dies for sizing. Like Guy said, start with what's available. What press are you loading on ? this redding competition seating die and lee u die. nothing else matters but the sizing and seating die i like to be as precise as possible since that affects oal (and thus the ability to chamber) and if its not sized far enough down it also might not chamber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageJoeShooting Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 9 hours ago, Skeeter44 said: Hey guys, so I need some help. I acquired an open setup. It is chambered in 38 Super. It is not stamped 38 super comp. I guess these are the same thing? One is rimless? I dont fully understand what that means as I am new to the caliber. I need help!! I dont know what die set to buy, I was told to use 3N38 powder. I did a search on here and didnt find too many specific answers. Maybe I am asking too much?? I want to learn I just would prefer not to buy stuff that isnt needed/ wont work. Any help is greatly appreciated and the more specific, the better. heres a thing about peoples 38sc loads AA7 is probably the flattest powder and i say that having used 3n38 and n320 before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 An article on the brass: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/7/23/rimless-38-super-brass-everything-you-need-to-know/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 You have a lot of capacity in a 38S case, so there is no reason in the world to use N350 or 3N37 for major. 3N38 is the fastest powder I would use. AA7 would be my choice. It is slower and less expensive. It meters like water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Steve's points are true: AA7 will make Major with no problems and certainly meters well. It does have a pretty dark side though: barrel wear. I've had barrels that I've shot only V-V, IMR 4756, or Win 540 through and they look brand new after 10K or so. The same barrel with AA7 looks like you poured some sand down the barrel right before shooting it. A noted ballistician once told me that this was due to the amount of burn inhibitor sprayed on AA7. Oftentimes, a small dust particle will get sprayed down with burn inhibitor just like every full-sized grain of powder. This dust particle doesn't ignite, but stays around in the barrel. When the next round screams through the barrel, that particle acts as an abrasive. Sounded feasible to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sauza45 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 I use N105 for powder and Dillon dies. Have been doing that for many years with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 10.5 of VV N105, a MG 115JHP @ 1.235 OAL, any small primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 8 hours ago, Braxton1 said: The same barrel with AA7 looks like you poured some sand down the barrel right before shooting it. I haven't found that in my barrels. The one I shoot the most with AA7/SWMP in has more than 10k rounds through it and it is still shiny and new looking. Maybe that's because most of those rounds were Hornady HAPs. I ran out of them at about 8k and switched to Zero 115 JHPs. Maybe it's because I clean and lube the barrel with Weapon Shield solvent and lube. Dunno. I'll keep an eye on it, but I really don't have much choice. I shoot 9 major and literally cannot fit enough 3N38 in the case to make major with a 115. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter44 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 21 hours ago, warpspeed said: yes Some of us mix and match dies. I like the Redding Competition Seating die myself and other are true believers in the Lee U-dies for sizing. Like Guy said, start with what's available. What press are you loading on ? I have a hornady single stage and the hornady progressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter44 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 Im going to use 3N38 powder. The die situation is kinda s#!t right now. I cant find the Lee U-die in stock in 38 super. For now I have a redding crimp die part #31271 and an RCBS sizing die part#20237. Have not been able to acquire a seating die yet. I plan to use 124 gr. RN thats very similar to a montana gold. I hope to find a seating die soon. Any recommendations on charge weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter44 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 16 hours ago, superdude said: An article on the brass: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2019/7/23/rimless-38-super-brass-everything-you-need-to-know/ That was very informative, thank you for the link kind sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Skeeter44 said: Im going to use 3N38 powder. The die situation is kinda s#!t right now. I cant find the Lee U-die in stock in 38 super. For now I have a redding crimp die part #31271 and an RCBS sizing die part#20237. Have not been able to acquire a seating die yet. I plan to use 124 gr. RN thats very similar to a montana gold. I hope to find a seating die soon. Any recommendations on charge weight? I wouldn't get too hung up on the Lee U-die. Easy enough to switch out down the road if so desired. The micrometer seating dies are great if you are trying or using multiple bullets ; like 124 for major and 115 for minor or SC loads. Going back and forth is a breeze. If not, then pick one. As for 3N38, 8.0 gr is the VV starting load but I think you are going to find something north of 9.0 is going to get you major PF. If you don't have a chronograph, get one. BTW - here is a repository of some 38 super data ; http://www.k8nd.com/ipscload.htm Edited November 5, 2021 by warpspeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter44 Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 1 minute ago, warpspeed said: I wouldn't get too hung up on the Lee U-die. Easy enough to switch out down the road if so desired. The micrometer seating dies are great if you are trying or using multiple bullets ; like 124 for major and 115 for minor or SC loads. Going back and forth is a breeze. If not, then pick one. As for 3N38, 8.0 gr is the VV starting load but I think you are going to find something north of 9.0 is going to get you major PF. If you don't have a chronograph, get one. I have a lab radar. Its just a brand new gun, dont wanna screw anything up, sorry for the dumb questions. I ordered 1K of the 38 SC brass from Killough Shooting Sports. They said that its great brass, and very popular in the open guns. The dies were confusing me because I couldnt find dies marked Super Comp. They were all marked 38 Super. Once again, didnt want to screw anything up lol Thank you for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 From wiki Cartridge dimensionsEdit The .38 Super has 17.6 grains H2O (1.14 ml) cartridge case capacity. The common rifling twist rate for this cartridge is 1 in 16 in (406 mm), 6 grooves, ø lands = .346 in, ø grooves = .355 in, land width =.12 mm and the primer type is small pistol. Both the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) and Commission internationale permanente pour l’épreuve des armes à feu portatives (C.I.P.) specify a bullet diameter of 0.356 inches (9.04 mm). According to the official C.I.P. guidelines, the .38 Super case can handle up to 230 MPa (33,359 psi) piezo pressure. In C.I.P. regulated countries, every pistol cartridge combo has to be proofed at 130% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to be certified for sale to consumers. The SAAMI pressure limit for the .38 ACP or .38 Auto is set at 26,500 psi (182.72 MPa), piezo pressure. The SAAMI pressure limit for the .38 Super +P is set at 36,500 psi (251.66 MPa), piezo pressure.[6] The C.I.P. and SAAMI specified .38 Super (+P) has a semi-rimmed cartridge case. In recent years, cases such as the .38 Super Comp, .38 Super Lapua, .38 Super RL (Armscor), and .38 TJ (.38 Todd Jarrett) became available transforming the .38 Super into an almost truly rimless cartridge. These "rimless" cases are somewhat of a misnomer, due to the case rim not retaining the same diameter as the case wall just forward of the extractor groove. A common example is the .38 Super Comp case, which has a semi-rim extending only .003–.004 inch per side, compared to standard .38 Super which has .007–.009 inch per side. The main reason for the development of new cases was due to the semi-rimmed .38 Super case not always feeding reliably from the double-stack box-magazines used in several semi-automatic pistols popular with practical shooting sports, such as United States Practical Shooting Association (USPSA) or International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC). The nearly rimless cases improve feeding reliability in these pistols but are intended to be used in firearms that headspace on the case mouth.[7] Other improvements found in some of these cases are modified extractor grooves and increased thickness in key parts of the brass for high pressure loadings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 Most "rimless" cases have the rim diameter a bit larger than the body diameter. The 45 Auto rim is about 0.004" larger than the body diameter per the SDAAI drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrickxx Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 One interesting difference is 38 super uses the 9 shell plate on a Dillion and the super comp uses the 223. It’s kinda nice for making sure you don’t get regular super brass or 9mm mixed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Patrickxx said: One interesting difference is 38 super uses the 9 shell plate on a Dillion and the super comp uses the 223. It’s kinda nice for making sure you don’t get regular super brass or 9mm mixed in. Supercomp will sometimes work with the 38S/9mm shellplate...and other times it will pull through when sizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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